Sounds good to me and it will surely work fine . My 74 k5 doesn't have the metal tube, wires run along the oil pan from the starter up the front of the block and back again over the intake/valve covers.
CK5
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PLEASE HELP! '76 K10 won't even turn over!
- Thread starter handloader90
- Start date
handloader90
Building!
Ok. I hooked everything up and replaced the fusible link on the firewall.
I have absolutely zero power to anything, the lights and gauges don't have power and the truck obliviously won't turn over.
I've got the two 10 gauge red wires and battery cable running off of the stud to the battery and the blue wire running to the small stud.
I also capped off the end of the 10 gauge red wire that used to be hooked up on the large stud on the starter (where all my other wires are running to now).
Trying to figure out what went wrong?
I have absolutely zero power to anything, the lights and gauges don't have power and the truck obliviously won't turn over.
I've got the two 10 gauge red wires and battery cable running off of the stud to the battery and the blue wire running to the small stud.
I also capped off the end of the 10 gauge red wire that used to be hooked up on the large stud on the starter (where all my other wires are running to now).
Trying to figure out what went wrong?
Check for power at both of the studs on that plastic junction block with a test lamp,there should be 12V there ...
The more I type the more I may confuse you...
--basically, one of the two new red wires should go right to that junction block on the firewall,if you haven't connected one of them there ,then thats why no power is getting to the cab..
Originally the two red wires at the starter with the fusible links went into the harness behind the engine,and were "split" in the harness--one goes to the altenator's main power stud,the other one goes to the stud on the firewall junction block closest to the engine...they were also spliced together in the harness in "T" fashion from the factory..
I have to do some chores and eat,I will check back later to see how your making out...sorry your having a tough time ,I know electrical is tough to understand and trying to explain how to do this over the interweb isn't easy..
The more I type the more I may confuse you...
--basically, one of the two new red wires should go right to that junction block on the firewall,if you haven't connected one of them there ,then thats why no power is getting to the cab..
Originally the two red wires at the starter with the fusible links went into the harness behind the engine,and were "split" in the harness--one goes to the altenator's main power stud,the other one goes to the stud on the firewall junction block closest to the engine...they were also spliced together in the harness in "T" fashion from the factory..
I have to do some chores and eat,I will check back later to see how your making out...sorry your having a tough time ,I know electrical is tough to understand and trying to explain how to do this over the interweb isn't easy..
handloader90
Building!
Gotcha, The wire that I said I was "Deleting" was the wire that ran from the junction box to the starter... I thought that since I wasn't using it that it was obsolete. What I did was pull that wire from the junction block, got a rough measurement of how long it was and made a new on with new wire and connectors.
I ran it from the junction block to behind the engine and to the starter. I had lights/ gauges for a few seconds until I went to crank the ignition, It sounds like somethings was sparking like there was a short and then everything went out... I looked all of the wires over and didn't see anything that indicated a short.
Battery is fully charged, I got it back in January and there isn't a speck of crud on the terminals, All of my connections are new and crimped properly onto the new wires.
I looked on my fuse block for something that might be the Ignition... IGN, START, POWER or something similiar. Didn't see anything and all of my fuses are still good if that matters.
I was going to have my Wife come out and crank the ignition while I looked in the engine bay to see if there were any sparks for a short, but it's not even getting power right now. I still haven't picked up a tester, I think I'm gonna go run and do that in a few mins and just test everything.
Also, when everything was working for the few seconds the Voltmeter was reading around 9 volts, maybe 10 volts.
Going to get a tester!
I ran it from the junction block to behind the engine and to the starter. I had lights/ gauges for a few seconds until I went to crank the ignition, It sounds like somethings was sparking like there was a short and then everything went out... I looked all of the wires over and didn't see anything that indicated a short.
Battery is fully charged, I got it back in January and there isn't a speck of crud on the terminals, All of my connections are new and crimped properly onto the new wires.
I looked on my fuse block for something that might be the Ignition... IGN, START, POWER or something similiar. Didn't see anything and all of my fuses are still good if that matters.
I was going to have my Wife come out and crank the ignition while I looked in the engine bay to see if there were any sparks for a short, but it's not even getting power right now. I still haven't picked up a tester, I think I'm gonna go run and do that in a few mins and just test everything.
Also, when everything was working for the few seconds the Voltmeter was reading around 9 volts, maybe 10 volts.
Going to get a tester!
handloader90
Building!
Got a tester (looks like an icepick with a light in the handle) and a Multi-Tester. I have no idea how to use the Multi-Tester...
I used the tester on the battery and EVERY cable that has to do with the starter, junction block and fusible links. The tester lit up everytime.
I used the tester on the battery and EVERY cable that has to do with the starter, junction block and fusible links. The tester lit up everytime.
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You put the wire from the junction block to the starter?...if so,why?..
I thought the main idea here was to take the red wires OFF the starter solenoid/battery cable post and run them to the battery terminal...
Either way,the wires will get 12V no matter where you connect them--at the starter or at the battery,its still the main positive cable your tapping into--just at the battery end instead of the harder to get at starter end,so the truck should have started,seeing you can jump the solenoid and make it start,the starter IS working OK ...
Seeing your getting power to the junction block ,etc,its sounding like you have some more wiring problems in the cab or under the dash to contend with..have you tried holding the key on "crank" and moving the shifter slowly towards reverse or neutral,to see if the neutral safety switch might be out of adjustment,or try jumping the two wires on it together to by-pass it?..(they are purple and yellow and the plug is on the colum down near the firewall )...
In Kain's thread there is more detail on how to jump the neutral safety and a picture too...pictures help a lot in electrical diagnosis..
I thought the main idea here was to take the red wires OFF the starter solenoid/battery cable post and run them to the battery terminal...
Either way,the wires will get 12V no matter where you connect them--at the starter or at the battery,its still the main positive cable your tapping into--just at the battery end instead of the harder to get at starter end,so the truck should have started,seeing you can jump the solenoid and make it start,the starter IS working OK ...
Seeing your getting power to the junction block ,etc,its sounding like you have some more wiring problems in the cab or under the dash to contend with..have you tried holding the key on "crank" and moving the shifter slowly towards reverse or neutral,to see if the neutral safety switch might be out of adjustment,or try jumping the two wires on it together to by-pass it?..(they are purple and yellow and the plug is on the colum down near the firewall )...
In Kain's thread there is more detail on how to jump the neutral safety and a picture too...pictures help a lot in electrical diagnosis..
handloader90
Building!
Ok. So I've got 4 wires running off of the (+) stud on the starter - Battery cable and two 10 gauge wires with 14 gauge fusible links running to the battery cable clamp, then I have a 10 gauge wire with 14 gauge fusible link running to the junction block (left stud, smaller), this is the original wire that was going to the starter.
I cut and replaced the fusible link on the junction (right stud, larger).
I had lights for a few seconds until i turned the ignition to see if the truck would start, it sounded like something was sparking under the hood... I looked everywhere and couldn't find any wires that looked messed up or that were grounded or contacting metal.
I have power from the battery to the battery cable, the starter and the alternator.
My hand on my tach jumps just a little bit when I turn the ignition on and my voltmeter will read somewhere around 10 volts when I turn the ignition on.
Currently cannot get the lights, "accesories" (gauge/ tach lights) to come on.
What is the next step from here?
Going to try the move the shifter around now.
I cut and replaced the fusible link on the junction (right stud, larger).
I had lights for a few seconds until i turned the ignition to see if the truck would start, it sounded like something was sparking under the hood... I looked everywhere and couldn't find any wires that looked messed up or that were grounded or contacting metal.
I have power from the battery to the battery cable, the starter and the alternator.
My hand on my tach jumps just a little bit when I turn the ignition on and my voltmeter will read somewhere around 10 volts when I turn the ignition on.
Currently cannot get the lights, "accesories" (gauge/ tach lights) to come on.
What is the next step from here?
Going to try the move the shifter around now.
handloader90
Building!
Moving the shifter around while cranking the ignition didn't do anything. I got lights back, I had to disconnect the (+) battery cable and hook it back up, tried the ignition and everything went out again. Couldn't get the lights on after that, so I brought my back-up battery out and hooked it up and the lights came back on, going to have the Wife crank the ignition and see if I can see a spark under the hood.
handloader90
Building!
Ok. Had the Wife turn the ignition while I looked under the hood. I didn't see a spark but definitely heard a pop, like an electric spark pop.
I'm guessing and hoping that this is the culprit... I just have to find out where the hell it is.
Also, everything went out as soon as the "Pop" happened.
I'm guessing and hoping that this is the culprit... I just have to find out where the hell it is.
Also, everything went out as soon as the "Pop" happened.
so no dash lights, wipers etc. missing power to the cab somewhere. Did you check the rest of the harness running on the firewall to the back of the fuse panel in the engine comp Lt side for bad or broken wires.
Check all you fuse panel for power at all the studs for the fuses from inside the cab with that test light and find out what has power and what doesn't. Most will need to have the key on( Ign Hot) and a couple are hot direct from battery( Bat Hot).
If you have power at the firewall junction at both terminals you are good to that point and problem is past that point towards the cab.
When you hear the crackling is that when the key is turned to start or just on?
If when turned to start then I would pull the wire off the S term of the starter and see if it goes away. If so take the starter and have it checked or jumper it ( Main cable to S terminal on starter and see if it works) ( Key off so it wont start) .
If still crackles with S term removed short is somewhere else.
Do and internet search on the Internet on how to use that meter for checking volts and Ohms. You need it.
There is a fuse IGN, the lettering is probably gone.
Recharge the battery again.
Check all you fuse panel for power at all the studs for the fuses from inside the cab with that test light and find out what has power and what doesn't. Most will need to have the key on( Ign Hot) and a couple are hot direct from battery( Bat Hot).
If you have power at the firewall junction at both terminals you are good to that point and problem is past that point towards the cab.
When you hear the crackling is that when the key is turned to start or just on?
If when turned to start then I would pull the wire off the S term of the starter and see if it goes away. If so take the starter and have it checked or jumper it ( Main cable to S terminal on starter and see if it works) ( Key off so it wont start) .
If still crackles with S term removed short is somewhere else.
Do and internet search on the Internet on how to use that meter for checking volts and Ohms. You need it.
There is a fuse IGN, the lettering is probably gone.
Recharge the battery again.
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handloader90
Building!
Correct, I don't have any power to anything in the cab or the exterior lights. I only have them until I try to crank the ignition... As soon as I do that everything goes out, that's why I thing my power might be grounding out somewhere. The "Pop" from under the hood leads me to believe it's a short also, I didn't see a spark though which makes it a little more difficult to see where the is culprit wire is.
I'm going to test all the fuse holders in the fuse panel when I get home from work. I'll let you guys know what I come up with.
From all of the wiring diagrams I've looked at and photos of fuse panels that are for out vehicles my fun panel doesn't look like it is for my truck. I'll take a photo and upload it later.
I only hear the crackle/ pop when the ignition is all the way forward when I'm trying to start the truck and it's only one crackle/ pop before all power is lost and then I have to disconnect the battery and sometime I can get the lights to come back on and sometimes I can't.
I'll give it a try with the "S" terminal disconnected when I get home. I can jump start all components on the starter and everything works fine by jumping it, I wonder if I might have a short in the starter solenoid... wouldn't I still receive power to the cab if this was the case?
Battery is on the charger now.
I'm going to test all the fuse holders in the fuse panel when I get home from work. I'll let you guys know what I come up with.
From all of the wiring diagrams I've looked at and photos of fuse panels that are for out vehicles my fun panel doesn't look like it is for my truck. I'll take a photo and upload it later.
I only hear the crackle/ pop when the ignition is all the way forward when I'm trying to start the truck and it's only one crackle/ pop before all power is lost and then I have to disconnect the battery and sometime I can get the lights to come back on and sometimes I can't.
I'll give it a try with the "S" terminal disconnected when I get home. I can jump start all components on the starter and everything works fine by jumping it, I wonder if I might have a short in the starter solenoid... wouldn't I still receive power to the cab if this was the case?
Battery is on the charger now.
Just for info when you go to crank all other power will be go down until you release the key to the run position and every thing else should come back. Majority of Power is directed to starter when cranking.
You'll find it, process of elimination.
Seems to me you got a bad starter or a short in the start circuit but that's just a guess. Make sure all the obvious things are good before you chase a gremlin.
I'll Have to go back to the beginning when all this started.
You'll find it, process of elimination.
Seems to me you got a bad starter or a short in the start circuit but that's just a guess. Make sure all the obvious things are good before you chase a gremlin.
I'll Have to go back to the beginning when all this started.
handloader90
Building!
Got a break for breakfast and seeing as that I work about 3 miles from home I figured I'd test the fuese panel. I put the key to the run position and tested all the fuse "studs" in the fuse panel. I have power to all of them, except for wiper motor, wiper fluid and heater... the wiper motor and washer fluid motor are currently removed and the heater was yanked out and replaced with an aftermarket "Racing" style heater, so that's why I'm not getting anything there.
Would a short in the starter cause my problems, I was reading something about a guy having the same issues as me, ended up the starter had a short in I believe the solenoid, he replaced the starter and all was good.
I'm getting power to everything until the starter is engaged, then I lose everything.
Also, forgot to mention, the little starter gear that engages the flexplate is in the "Out"/ engaging the flexplate position and it seems to just be hanging out there... is that a sign of the starter having issues since the gear is supposed to go back inside of it's housing?
Here's how many volts I'm getting with the headlights on and the ignition in the run position:
Here's my little light that lets me know that the accesory and/or external lights are on:
And here's my fuse panel:
Would a short in the starter cause my problems, I was reading something about a guy having the same issues as me, ended up the starter had a short in I believe the solenoid, he replaced the starter and all was good.
I'm getting power to everything until the starter is engaged, then I lose everything.
Also, forgot to mention, the little starter gear that engages the flexplate is in the "Out"/ engaging the flexplate position and it seems to just be hanging out there... is that a sign of the starter having issues since the gear is supposed to go back inside of it's housing?
Here's how many volts I'm getting with the headlights on and the ignition in the run position:
Here's my little light that lets me know that the accesory and/or external lights are on:
And here's my fuse panel:
Sure starter could be draining power and or shorted. Bendix (gear) is stuck. Lightly tap on the stater with a hammer it should pop in but that not right to be stuck out and If a warranty starter don't mark it up.
You should read between 12 and 13 volts with the ignition on and everything else off. 12.5 is ideal.
No power to the wiper and heater fuse is odd but prolly not your main problem.
You have extra wires on the fuse panel for what? Looks like the correct fuse panel for a 76 that u questioned.
So you have power in the cab and you have popping when in crank wants me to believe its starter or start circuit short.
Check for power with your light at the S term With it disconnected from starter and in crank and just on positions, should be batt volts in crank only.
Better yet your new meter in VDC position, red lead to volt plug and black lead to COMM plug. Black is ground.
Check actual volts you get at starter in crank. Also check the batt volts directly at the bat and compare what's in the truck verses the batt. Should be pretty close.
You should read between 12 and 13 volts with the ignition on and everything else off. 12.5 is ideal.
No power to the wiper and heater fuse is odd but prolly not your main problem.
You have extra wires on the fuse panel for what? Looks like the correct fuse panel for a 76 that u questioned.
So you have power in the cab and you have popping when in crank wants me to believe its starter or start circuit short.
Check for power with your light at the S term With it disconnected from starter and in crank and just on positions, should be batt volts in crank only.
Better yet your new meter in VDC position, red lead to volt plug and black lead to COMM plug. Black is ground.
Check actual volts you get at starter in crank. Also check the batt volts directly at the bat and compare what's in the truck verses the batt. Should be pretty close.
handloader90
Building!
The extra wires are for the tach. I dont know what the large red wire goes to, but the smaller gauge ones are for the tach.
The starter is still under warranty and I think I'll take it back today and get a replacement.
As mentioned the heater/wiper moter/wiper fluid aren't hooked up, I know that I popped the heater fuse out and I think I may have pipped the wiper/ washer fuses out too... maybe not.
Where can I locate the starter circuit? Is it on the starter?
Going to check volts when I get home.
The starter is still under warranty and I think I'll take it back today and get a replacement.
As mentioned the heater/wiper moter/wiper fluid aren't hooked up, I know that I popped the heater fuse out and I think I may have pipped the wiper/ washer fuses out too... maybe not.
Where can I locate the starter circuit? Is it on the starter?
Going to check volts when I get home.
The starter solenoid "cap" is easy to crack when you tighten the nut to the stud the battery cable goes on..
Thats another reason I wanted to move the two red wires on my trucks away from there and connect them right at the battery itself..then you can drop the starter with the battery cable still connected and remove it on the ground,instead of it dangling by the red wires,the battery cable, and the purple "crank" wire...
( I lengthened the purple wire so it could be lowered to the ground )..
--still, even if that solenoid cap cracked,the cab should still get power as long as the wires at the solenoid stud were still firmly bolted together--the starter works if he jumps it though,so that tells me it still works,maybe the spring in the solenoid that retracts the drive gear is weak ,broken,or is hanging up inside..
...I've had the two bolts holding the solenoid to the starter nose back off and cause this to happen more than once also--wont hurt to check them..
I dont know why the red wires were put back on the starter solenoid post,the whole idea here was to move them away from there,and hook them right to the battery itself instead...but as I said earlier,either way "works",the factory setup is just more of a pain to deal with them being attached at the starter..
His truck must have more wiring issues inside the cab also, I think..
Thats another reason I wanted to move the two red wires on my trucks away from there and connect them right at the battery itself..then you can drop the starter with the battery cable still connected and remove it on the ground,instead of it dangling by the red wires,the battery cable, and the purple "crank" wire...
( I lengthened the purple wire so it could be lowered to the ground )..
--still, even if that solenoid cap cracked,the cab should still get power as long as the wires at the solenoid stud were still firmly bolted together--the starter works if he jumps it though,so that tells me it still works,maybe the spring in the solenoid that retracts the drive gear is weak ,broken,or is hanging up inside..
...I've had the two bolts holding the solenoid to the starter nose back off and cause this to happen more than once also--wont hurt to check them..I dont know why the red wires were put back on the starter solenoid post,the whole idea here was to move them away from there,and hook them right to the battery itself instead..
.but as I said earlier,either way "works",the factory setup is just more of a pain to deal with them being attached at the starter..His truck must have more wiring issues inside the cab also, I think..
handloader90
Building!
I do get power to the cab until I crank the ignition and the starter engages, I get one crackle/ pop and all power is gone. That's why I think the problem may lie in the starter.
Ok, just so I get this right. I need to remove the 10 gauge wire that goes from the (+) stud on the starter that goes to the right side of the junction box on the firewall?
I already have the two 10 gauge wires with fusible links going from (+) battery post to (+) stud on starter in conjunction with the battery cable.
Ok, just so I get this right. I need to remove the 10 gauge wire that goes from the (+) stud on the starter that goes to the right side of the junction box on the firewall?
I already have the two 10 gauge wires with fusible links going from (+) battery post to (+) stud on starter in conjunction with the battery cable.
I told you several times --NONE of the new red wires you put on should be connected to the starter period...unless you wanted to keep it "original"..
The only two wires on the starter now,should be the positive battery cable itself,and the purple wire on the "S" terminal on the solenoid..thats it..no others..
The two new red wires will be hooked to the positive battery terminal. right on the battery...
One of them then has to connect the the firewall junction block,on the stud nearest the engine..the other needs to be connected to the altenator stud that has a thick red wire on it..or you could connect it to the thick red wire you snipped off at the harness,its the same wire..its much easier to get at the altenator stud though..
The only two wires on the starter now,should be the positive battery cable itself,and the purple wire on the "S" terminal on the solenoid..thats it..no others..
The two new red wires will be hooked to the positive battery terminal. right on the battery...
One of them then has to connect the the firewall junction block,on the stud nearest the engine..the other needs to be connected to the altenator stud that has a thick red wire on it..or you could connect it to the thick red wire you snipped off at the harness,its the same wire..its much easier to get at the altenator stud though..
handloader90
Building!
Ok.
So (+) battery post to battery cable to large starter stud. Purple/ blue wire to "S" stud.
10 gauge wire from junction block straight to battery. Does this one need a fusible link?
10 gauge wire from the power stud on back of alternator straight to the battery. Does this one need a fusible link?
So (+) battery post to battery cable to large starter stud. Purple/ blue wire to "S" stud.
10 gauge wire from junction block straight to battery. Does this one need a fusible link?
10 gauge wire from the power stud on back of alternator straight to the battery. Does this one need a fusible link?
Yes,thats correct,as far as the wiring...
The fusible link in the wire from the battery to altenator stud has to be of sufficient capacity to handle all the amps the altenator can put out, along with the load of all the accessories..if its too "small" it may fry someday if you ran your battery down real low ,and the altenator puts out maximum power to recharge the battery--but thats better than frying any of the other wiring in the harness...if you dont put one there, chances are the other fusible links in the red wires would still protect the wiring anyway..its your choice whether to put one there or not..I would,and carry a spare one with you in case it did get fried someday..
