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Pole barn advice - siding done, power in

Blue85

Blue85

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I need some advice on getting a barn/garage up. Something that can at least hold a few vehicles. Big concerns:
1) Rocky ground
2) Being cost-effective
3) Supporting snow and wind loads

The property is mostly rock - giant rocks sticking up all over in the woods. Just outside of my desired build site is what appears to be bedrock hanging out. It appears that a bunch of dirt was hauled in to make the level area that is now my front yard and driveway (the other side of the house has the basement walk-out.) Pretty much everything in this area is sloping towards the lake (I'm like 1.5 miles from the lake and I can see it - I'm 500-600' feet higher). The way I understand it, my two options are:
a) Pole barn - bury the posts about 4' deep
b) Foundation - set a wall like 18-20" deep around the perimeter?
c) Floating slab - I have a 1-car garage built like this, but how big can you go?

Is there any way to know what's possible without just digging/excavating to find out? I should mention that there is currently a 2-car carport (roof on posts) in this target location. I have no idea how deep those posts go down.

A guy looked at the site for 10 minutes and gave me an estimate of $96k for a 30x40, "fully loaded", which isn't really what I asked for. Yes, I'd like to insulate and heat, but not necessarily right now. I'm willing to do a lot of work myself, but can't even get reliable numbers for material costs.
 
Is a "kit" or something from a website a good idea or am I better off sourcing materials separately? Having one contractor responsible for everything sounds nice, but if they're just going to throw out ridiculous numbers, there's no point talking to them.
 
I'd lean towards floating slab with lots of rebar, poles with setting plates on top of the slab or stud wall structure would work. Steel structures that have structural value for snow load tend to be more up to larger square footage.
 
The maps are saying the frost line goes as much as 80" here. Seems like solid rock would keep the frost higher, as going in the mines all around is like 45F in the winter. Oh, and we got almost 300" of snow last winter. I know frost goes deeper when you clear snow and obviously one side would need to be cleared.
 
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I'm probably confusing floating slab with monolithic. My 1-car is almost surely monolithic. Apparently floating requires a regular foundation, so that likely doesn't make sense compared to pole or pier construction.
 
Blue85 said:
Is a "kit" or something from a website a good idea or am I better off sourcing materials separately? Having one contractor responsible for everything sounds nice, but if they're just going to throw out ridiculous numbers, there's no point talking to them.
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ehhhh, I think I would go with a kit, that way everything is designed to work together. There are affordable kits out there, ebay, amazon, you name it. And heat, get a cheap wood stove for now and insulate as you get some money ahead. I think I would be more worried about your foundation.
 
All of the big, and I mean BIG warehouses around here are poured with the stem walls separate from the main slab. I am not sure how they tie the two together but if you have to go deep to get below the frost line, that may be an option for you.
 
If you have solid rock at surface, a pole barn would be hard to build. Coring into rock is expensive.

You mention 30x40. How tall on the side walls? What pitch is required for show shedding in your area to keep the load down?

Are you trying to keep the floor clear of any supports?

A steel frame building on a foundation may be more suited to your area.
 
Blue85 said:
I'm probably confusing floating slab with monolithic. My 1-car is almost surely monolithic. Apparently floating requires a regular foundation, so that likely doesn't make sense compared to pole or pier construction.
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I've always thought the definition of monolithic slab is a curb poured with the slab, great concept for keeping bottom of wall dry, taller side wall and more structural value in the slab. The downside of monolithic slab is it requires more labor when finishing the rest of flat work, not a big deal on a small project. 10"-12" curb could easily be poured after the main slab is done.
 
I can't remember the term but I think it was monolithic when I used to do concrete and we would pour a slab with thicker sides to basically incorporate a footer into the slan all in one piece. No curb or raised edge. Just a flat slab say 4"-6" in the middle then thicker like 12"-24" on the edges to support walls.
 
Does your township have specs for requirements, or you trying to avoid them?
I had to go below the frost line @42” for the footing for the posts to sit on….that footing was 12” deep and 18” diameter. Truss manufacturer should know the construction for snow load in your area.
 
My father in law built a big shop completely out of used 5" well casing. It just sits on the ground. Not the way I woulda done it but it hasn't collapsed yet. He built it like an erector set .
 
When I lived up dere most of the townships around you require footings for conventional build if it is bigger than 720sqft. Pole barns aren't really common until you get more inland.

I would be inclined to excavate and pour directly on the basalt. I'd go stick built.
 
If you plan on heating it insulation under the floor makes it easier and more comfortable space. 2" high density 250 foam board prices are jacked, I've heard that some kids are using
Polyisocyanurate, more commonly referred to as polyiso insulation or ISO, is a closed-cell rigid foam board used in more than 70% of commercial roof construction. It's high density, would be fine Between vapor barrier and concrete available at a fair price.
 
I did get an experienced contractor to look into this for real. He is not afraid of the rock and says when they hit it, they just make a concave area (so things don't try to slide downhill over time) and anchor into it. He wants to do 4" slab with thickened edge, 2 feet of cement block, then 8 feet of stick/siding, 4/12 roof with trusses for snow load. With permits, site prep (moving my car port), excavation, cement, 2 overhead doors, shingle roof, all construction included just under $50k. This is a 30'x30'x10' garage that basically matches the house.
 
76zimmer said:
Does your township have specs for requirements, or you trying to avoid them?
I had to go below the frost line @42” for the footing for the posts to sit on….that footing was 12” deep and 18” diameter. Truss manufacturer should know the construction for snow load in your area.
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I'm not trying to avoid anything, just having trouble finding the actual requirements. The county has forms you fill out to show the dimensions of everything, but nothing to show you what the right/wrong answers are. I don't see any way to have a whole new structure without a permit and permit=inspections ("you can't fight city hall"?)

My house is designed for 100lbs/sq, which would be almost 2' of solid ice up there, but I think this exceeds the requirements. I don't have the detailed plans for this garage to know the truss spacing, etc.
 
76zimmer said:
10’ is good…..but seriously consider a minumum of 12-14’ for a lift in the future.
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What he said. Most 2 post lifts are 12' tall. You could put one up parallel to the trusses and between them, ut it still limits the vehicle height.
 
Due to the exorbitant current costs and locals trying to rip off a transplant, I'm debating skipping the extra required slab thickness (in areas I have to figure out now), slab insulation cost, in-floor plumbing cost, exacerbated heating cost of higher ceilings, and putting the lift in my attached garage, which is 11.5' high and already heated. This is a real internal conflict - what should I be spending on this vs. kids college, etc. Granted, as I'm paying off an outbuilding, there will be no lift or added toys to the stable.
 
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