Possible new boat Edit: bought one Wellcraft 230 open bow

[bigjimmy82]

Looking at a new to me 24’ boat with the 8.1. From past research I think that is preferred over even a MAG454. But not sure on the “gray” outdrive haha. Current boat is 4.3/alpha1 and I’ve done bellows/gimbel bearing before and am generally comfortable working on it. Posting up for others opinions on Volvo duoprop outdrives. @ryoken and others, thanks in advance!

Edit: bought a 2001 Wellcraft 230 502mag/bravo3 in April of 2022.

 

[Wes Harden]

from what I hear the "gray" out drive has a beefer prop shaft gear and larger diameter than the alphas. Better to run SS prop, which the 8.1 would benefit.

 

[ryoken]

eesh, why you gotta bring life into my layoff?????!!!???


vulva stuff is interesting... we are a solid 5 to 1 with merc.. maybe a bit more... in some ways superior to Merc, and others, way short... the drives are pretty darn tough.... but when they need to be fixed, look out... $$$$$$$..... parts are pricey and the labor is often stoopid long and challenging...

vulva's shift cables, while more time consuming on drive removal/storage/service disassembly, and especially reinstall, is a MUCH simpler, bulletproof setup than Bravos... BUT a bravo uninstalls, and installs in seconds.. with no adjustment needed.. but is also prone to failure, as that system is 2 piece.. like an alpha...

as far as the Vulva mill packages, I do like them... they do a lot right... I do like most of their fuel system work, as opposed to Merc's convaluted stuff 1/2 the time... also their cooling system is often better than merc options... still a cheb tho...


a merc alpha is far inferior to most vulva and is dinosauric compared to a Merc Bravo... alpha are only rated for like 250 hp, shift interrupt, etc.. thus why they went the way of the dodo... always glad to see them go from service.. Bravo's, while twice as heavy, are a FAR superior drive...


just never buy anything OMC...


oh, what yr is this fine vessel?

 

[bigjimmy82]

Thanks for the quick replies and knowledge! Current boat is a 1990. New to me one is 2001, hour meter shows ~400. Plan to have it scanned and compression check etc.

Have read about exhaust neglect issues? I’ll say I’ve never had an issue with the 4.3 risers in over, wow, I guess 15 years of use. Maybe dumb luck?

And I should clarify, the original search was for a 454mag/b3 powertrain. But this one popped up and checks all the other boxes, so... maybe I should consider.

I was lucky my uncle learned the OMC lesson for me

 

[ryoken]

is this freshwater stuff?

 

[bigjimmy82]

Yessir, inland rivers and lakes.

 

[ryoken]

ah ok, exhaust can last indefinitely than.. i get freshwater boats in every now and than... soon destroyed by the salt they are about to encounter! saltwater boats need elbows/risers done every 5 to 8 yrs usually... it WILL take the mill out.. I'm ASSuming those are non-catalytic setups...

the one thing I would warn you is to expect to need to service injectors in a boat that age.. monitor your plug readings, and if you start to see any fall off in rpm's, it'll be dirty injectors...

while on that subject, those low/hi pressure fuel pumps on those vulva's are a bit of a thorn for many.... factory replacement units are $1000... we have recently found a good supplier and get them for around $500 complete.... also, one of the main fail points of those is that the pumps don't actually fail, but the 2 pin plugs that hook them in get corroded.... seen soooo many people replace the whole pump assembly, and it ends up being the stoopid connection to it...

 

[bigjimmy82]

Thank you for the heads up on all points. Yes it is pre-emissions best I can tell cats started in December of 2009. Getting it inspected next week and will keep you posted.

 

[bigjimmy82]

Shifted gears a bit, going to look at a 502Mag/B3 combo in the am.

 

[GWeakland620]

I’ve got a 454/bravo 3 combo now, and I’m very happy with it. Great hole shot and decent top speed.

 

[bigjimmy82]

It’s a 23’ Wellcraft Excalibur, open bow, looks to have been well cared for. Brought it home, working out a deal. It had a slight miss at top end and engine alarm(beeping?) was going off, need to check temp gauge as we had good oil pressure and drive oil. Wanting to nail down issue before final purchase.

 

[ryoken]

SmartCraft? steady alarms are critical... probably water pressure... miss.. if it's a flat cap, check it... and a mill that vintage may be due for injector service..

just make sure to check the deck thoroughly... they aren't called Swellcrafts for nothing.. they are notorious for bolt-in floor panels getting water logged..

 

[bigjimmy82]

I think it is too old for smart craft, I think this is the ECU, best I can tell.

Flat distributor cap?

Yes, found a pretty good gouge in one of the strakes, although all of the stringers/wood I can get too look very solid.

 

[ryoken]

OMG... I'm in love...



it's one of my fave mill packages... luv that long block..... the intake, while "cool as fug" looking, is a nuisance for pressure readings, injectors, etc...

what's the fuel cooling setup? does it have the pump box below the alt or maybe the plastic cool fuel down by the pan?


and yeah, that's mephi4 stuff... solid platform... not sure of your cheapest reading capabilities.. basic laptop and a couple hundy cable/software kit would prolly get ya to data... the newer 555's have a bunch more info...



ya buy it.. feel free to hit me up... unfortunately I'm stoopidly versed in sterndrive Bravo 3 stuff that you'll generally see...


last mill like that I had in the marina was a 36 Formula with twins... long blocked one side, intake on other, all exhaust, yada, etc.. good customer Charlie, dug that boat... and he tried to stay on top of it.. pulled/serviced the drives every yr..... bellows, pucks, yada as needed..


ok, sorry, I get squirrelled... umm, yeah, flat cap dizzys, if it has one.. they have been problematic over the yrs in a couple ways.. good setup, just need to make sure you have fresh OEM cap on it...



and yeah, that chine is relatively rough.. few precautions and approaches to a repair like that.. but I could walk you thru various methods easy enough.... structurally it's not that bad.. few processes and steps... the "no bottom paint" part brings the suck a bit..... you more than likely wont "nail" a gel color.. but if you keep it tight, backtape on your peak/joints, it'll only be noticable to you...

 

[bigjimmy82]

Chine, my bad! That’s good to know, going to take it to a well known builder here to price a repair.

I’ll look at the fuel setup tomorrow, not sure it has a cooler, just filter, but I might have missed it.

I’ll check into what is available for the ecu. Gotta figure out if the seller will help with hull repair before I go much deeper.

Thank you!

 

[bigjimmy82]

Well, it took me a bit, but it will be going in the shop to get repaired soon. Able to work out a deal.

It does have the plastic cool fuel on the port side of the oil pan, anything to watch for on that?

 

[ryoken]

they aren't actually a bad system.. just a standard inline pump, reg and cooler in there.. biggest issue other than the occasional pump cr@p out (but they are surprisingly good pumps), are minor water leaks wrecking the 2 clamps and the wiring connectors to the pump getting green, etc..


oh, and as noted in your pic by the zipties.. the clip together aspect of the 2 pieces sucks.. most of the time, the outer will be laying in a bilge..

 

[bigjimmy82]

Gotcha, I’ll check the electrical. It’s loud before startup!

Do you know if the ECU is same between 502/454? Maybe just larger injectors? Turns out this is a few season old rebuild swapped in place of a 454 that lost a piston due to failed injector. Sounds like best way to prevent that is to just proactively replace the injectors?

Recommendation on a good relay center? Looking to clean up the exhaust wiring, so really just need 2 relays, but 4 spot would work.

 

[dhcomp]

Gotcha, I’ll check the electrical. It’s loud before startup!

Do you know if the ECU is same between 502/454? Maybe just larger injectors? Turns out this is a few season old rebuild swapped in place of a 454 that lost a piston due to failed injector. Sounds like best way to prevent that is to just proactively replace the injectors?

Recommendation on a good relay center? Looking to clean up the exhaust wiring, so really just need 2 relays, but 4 spot would work.

Lost a piston to failed injector?!

Proactive injector replacement?

I could see the piston problem after long use....maybe. But other than running clean fuel, changing fuel filters, etc. i've never heard of proactive injector replacement.

Curious to hear Paul's take, as i've got a 454mag also.

 

[bigjimmy82]

Yeah, not sure, if the fuel system is that touchy I need an o2 sensor or something haha. Checked the casting numbers it’s a gen6 502. Goes in next week for fiberglass repair.

dhcomp... what are your go too’s for oil/fuel filters? I’m kinda a nut on getting the best filter I can for car/truck/etc but haven’t dug into the boat yet.