Right now I have a 10k lb harbor freight winch on the front of my blazer. It is slow, but I take care of it and it has taken care of me. I just bought a 465/203/205 setup and the guy gave me a full PTO winch setup with it. Its driven by a driveline which he also gave me. The winch itself looks brand new. I did some reading around but did not quite find the info that I was looking for. Which winch do you suggest I run, and why? The drawbacks I see from the PTO winch is adding another driveline in the mess. Also, how exactly does the PTO winch work? I imagine I have to be in gear in order for it to be winching forward , so are my forward and reverse on the winch, also the forward and reverse gears on the 465? Someone break it down for me noobie style. Thanks.
CK5
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Pros and Cons PTO winch Vs Elctric
- Thread starter us74k5
- Start date
As far as I understand the pto winch you put the T-case in neutral, and winch direction is taken care of via transmission. First gear or reverse on the tranny is winch in and winch out. I'd assume there is a free spool feature on the winch too.
Rene
Rene
Only PTO winch I'm familiar with was the one we had on a ramp truck at the junkyard--it had a lever sticking up thru the tranny hump that had forward and reverse--the truck was 2wd,to use the winch you depressed the clutch,shifted the tranny into neutral,then selected forward or reverse with the PTO lever,and you let the clutch out to start pulling with it..the thing could cut a car in half if you put the cable over the roof and anchored it to the bed!...
One thing about a PTO winch,is the fact if the engine stalls,you have no winch either!--but an electric one will still work till you kill the battery...also there is no driveshaft to worry about getting tangled up in mud and sticks that can break too...the PTO winches are very strong though ..
One thing about a PTO winch,is the fact if the engine stalls,you have no winch either!--but an electric one will still work till you kill the battery...also there is no driveshaft to worry about getting tangled up in mud and sticks that can break too...the PTO winches are very strong though ..
Man did you come to the right place..
I have run PTO winches for over 30 years.
DO NOT even try to get into which is best. You will be beating a very dead horse, and when it is all said and done, it will come down to two things.
1, what you are using it for.
2 a matter of opinion.
I will give you some of the pros and cons in a second.
To use the winch, you normally put the 205 in neutral, and use the transmission and clutch to control the winch.
Forward and reverse mirror the transmission. For pulling, you use 1st gear. When you are through, you use a higher gear to wind it in faster.
Reverse backs up the winch.
It will have a dog clutch on it for free spooling. Shift lever on the side or top.
If you are stuck really bad in deep mud, you will usually put the 205 in gear, and let the wheels dig ruts as the winch pulls you out.
A PTO winch shaft driven is what is known as cable limited.
In other words, it will pull until the cable breaks. It will not stall out.
If your wheels are buried really deep, the spring shackles might be weaker than the cable and you could leave an axle in the mud.
So let the wheels dig.
I personally prefer PTO, but have built and used electrics.
Pros and cons.
Electric will work with the engine off. If you drown out, it will get you to shore.
Upside down, an electric will turn you over without the engine running.
Electric is limited to how long it will pull. Even with today's high output alternators, you will eventually run out of juice.
Also, some electrics have duty cycles. Not so much any more.
PTO will pull as long as the engine is running.
On average will out-pull an electric. When you have to use a snatch block, or make sure the spool is almost empty on an electric to get max pull, a PTO pretty much ignores that.
Now, PTOs do not break the laws of physics. Your rating on a full spool is less than an empty spool.
However, where an electric will stall on a full spool, a PTO will keep pulling until something breaks or you get out.
My PTO will snap a 3/8 steel cable with a full spool, and has done so several times even though it is not rated that high.
Nothing but the cable broke yet.
A PTO basically has no time limit. I have pulled as many as 8 trucks out of one bog in a long pull.
The first two were tied together by an electric winch cable. He had come out and pulled out two trucks with his electric, before the battery died and left him hooked to the third.
It took a couple of hours, but my PTO ran pretty much continuously.
My present PTO had to be run hydraulically because I had no way to run the shaft. My old truck was shaft driven and I liked it a little better.
But my present one is no slouch.
There is a thread here with some pictures of mine I will find it and post it in a minute.
I have run PTO winches for over 30 years.
DO NOT even try to get into which is best. You will be beating a very dead horse, and when it is all said and done, it will come down to two things.
1, what you are using it for.
2 a matter of opinion.
I will give you some of the pros and cons in a second.
To use the winch, you normally put the 205 in neutral, and use the transmission and clutch to control the winch.
Forward and reverse mirror the transmission. For pulling, you use 1st gear. When you are through, you use a higher gear to wind it in faster.
Reverse backs up the winch.
It will have a dog clutch on it for free spooling. Shift lever on the side or top.
If you are stuck really bad in deep mud, you will usually put the 205 in gear, and let the wheels dig ruts as the winch pulls you out.
A PTO winch shaft driven is what is known as cable limited.
In other words, it will pull until the cable breaks. It will not stall out.
If your wheels are buried really deep, the spring shackles might be weaker than the cable and you could leave an axle in the mud.
So let the wheels dig.
I personally prefer PTO, but have built and used electrics.
Pros and cons.
Electric will work with the engine off. If you drown out, it will get you to shore.
Upside down, an electric will turn you over without the engine running.
Electric is limited to how long it will pull. Even with today's high output alternators, you will eventually run out of juice.
Also, some electrics have duty cycles. Not so much any more.
PTO will pull as long as the engine is running.
On average will out-pull an electric. When you have to use a snatch block, or make sure the spool is almost empty on an electric to get max pull, a PTO pretty much ignores that.
Now, PTOs do not break the laws of physics. Your rating on a full spool is less than an empty spool.
However, where an electric will stall on a full spool, a PTO will keep pulling until something breaks or you get out.
My PTO will snap a 3/8 steel cable with a full spool, and has done so several times even though it is not rated that high.
Nothing but the cable broke yet.
A PTO basically has no time limit. I have pulled as many as 8 trucks out of one bog in a long pull.
The first two were tied together by an electric winch cable. He had come out and pulled out two trucks with his electric, before the battery died and left him hooked to the third.
It took a couple of hours, but my PTO ran pretty much continuously.
My present PTO had to be run hydraulically because I had no way to run the shaft. My old truck was shaft driven and I liked it a little better.
But my present one is no slouch.
There is a thread here with some pictures of mine I will find it and post it in a minute.
OK, here is a thread just scrolled off the main page discussing your type setup.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281714
And although it is mentioned in the last post of that thread, here is the link to my pictures.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249796
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281714
And although it is mentioned in the last post of that thread, here is the link to my pictures.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249796
Just my two cents,
Electric is better for rocks and just normal trail rides. Its simpler to hook up.
If I was a mud guy it would be PTO only.
You can still pull with the motor off with an electric but I have tried a couple times when I was very stuck in the mud. The winch died rather quickly. Probably because I was at the max draw of the thing. It started to pull me out but nowhere near enough to get unstuck.
In the rocks or trail your mostly pulling out of milder mud or when you only need a couple feet. So pulling with the motor off is a reasonable possibility.
One observation I have had. We have had to pull trucks out of mud or rocks when their truck is not running. If they would have had their own winch and 20 batterys they would not have been able to pull themselves out. They were wedged big time or sunk deep, without their tires spinning it took some serious work to get either one out.
The mud guy it just took more anchors and 3 more winches. (one of which was a PTO)
The rock guys it took 3 or 4 winches. Mainly cause they were not running and couldn't help the winch at all
So I hear guys saying all the time about electric being better which for the vast majority of folks I would say they would be happier with an electric.
But there are rigs and situations where a PTO would be highly preferred.
I run an electric and know its limitations, which in all reality are pretty much anchors and what I want to rip off my truck when being pulled, but if my motor dies I have about 4 ft at max pull if I am moving (which means I am not stuck anymore) or about 30 seconds of moving whatever anchor I am hooked to.
Remember I live in Idaho we don't have good winch anchors anywhere. Usually anchoring to other rigs or scrub oak. Neither is a very good anchor
Electric is better for rocks and just normal trail rides. Its simpler to hook up.
If I was a mud guy it would be PTO only.
You can still pull with the motor off with an electric but I have tried a couple times when I was very stuck in the mud. The winch died rather quickly. Probably because I was at the max draw of the thing. It started to pull me out but nowhere near enough to get unstuck.
In the rocks or trail your mostly pulling out of milder mud or when you only need a couple feet. So pulling with the motor off is a reasonable possibility.
One observation I have had. We have had to pull trucks out of mud or rocks when their truck is not running. If they would have had their own winch and 20 batterys they would not have been able to pull themselves out. They were wedged big time or sunk deep, without their tires spinning it took some serious work to get either one out.
The mud guy it just took more anchors and 3 more winches. (one of which was a PTO)
The rock guys it took 3 or 4 winches. Mainly cause they were not running and couldn't help the winch at all
So I hear guys saying all the time about electric being better which for the vast majority of folks I would say they would be happier with an electric.
But there are rigs and situations where a PTO would be highly preferred.
I run an electric and know its limitations, which in all reality are pretty much anchors and what I want to rip off my truck when being pulled, but if my motor dies I have about 4 ft at max pull if I am moving (which means I am not stuck anymore) or about 30 seconds of moving whatever anchor I am hooked to.
Remember I live in Idaho we don't have good winch anchors anywhere. Usually anchoring to other rigs or scrub oak. Neither is a very good anchor
Well, I think what I will do is run the PTO up front, and put my electric on a hitch in the back. I will just build a hitch into the new front bumper, so that If I have the need to use the electric up front I can just move it. I already have easily accessible power blocks in both the front and rear of my rig. So that shouldn't be an issue. Up here in WA you would be hard pressed to not find at least 10 anchor points around your rig at any one time. I have never been in a mud bog, and as far as rocks go I dont really see too many of them. Mostly just trails. I think im gonna run the PTO up front, and see how I like it. If i dont, i can always sell it and go back to just electric. Thanks again for all the info, it has been really helpful.
I think you will like it. Be careful when running the shaft. Make it as straight as you can, and don't forget to add a pillow block if you have a long run.
When you mount the PTO on the 205, snug it down gently with a gasket, and rock the shaft back in forth with it in gear as you do.
You should feel slop between the PTO gears and the 205 gears which will get tighter and tighter as you tighten the bolts.
If the slop goes away, the gears are seated too deep and are binding. You need to add shims.
When you mount the winch, grade 8 or better bolts, and a little overkill is a good thing.
When you use it, all the usual warnings apply, such as cable breakage, plus a couple more.
This is a strong winch. 12K electrics are too, but they will stall. This one will pull until something breaks.
You can literally rip your truck in half or tear out axles. When you are getting it in a strain, you will hear things that let you know. Creaking and groaning.
Pay attention, and you will learn how tell when you are making a harder pull than normal.
If you are lightly stuck, and you start hearing hard pull noises, stop and re-evaluate.
Guy called me when he got his truck stuck up to the doors in mud. I put my bumper against a tree, and started pulling with him turning his wheels.
I could hear the cable crackling, and other noises that said I had a serious load on the system.
I stopped and told him something was wrong and we needed to find out what.
He informed me that the only thing wrong was that my winch was not what it was cracked up to be.
Being young and stupid, I took offense to that and put the transmisson back in gear.
Few seconds later, he was waving his arms and screaming stop.
It seems that he had gotten his cross member over a large hidden stump. When I kept pulling, the cross member started bending. Drawing his frame in, and moving his fan up to touch the radiator.
I gave him a ride home, and he went back with some boards, shovels, friends, and a chain saw.
They built a retention wall, dug out the mud, and went under with the chain saw and cut the stump off.
Took them all day, and in the end his doors would not open due to the distortion of the frame and body.
He finally replaced the cross-member, and bowed his frame back out with a strong bar and 20 ton hydraulic jack.
Never said anything bad about my winch again though.
Let us know how it goes, ask any questions you might have, and try to post some pics.
When you mount the PTO on the 205, snug it down gently with a gasket, and rock the shaft back in forth with it in gear as you do.
You should feel slop between the PTO gears and the 205 gears which will get tighter and tighter as you tighten the bolts.
If the slop goes away, the gears are seated too deep and are binding. You need to add shims.
When you mount the winch, grade 8 or better bolts, and a little overkill is a good thing.
When you use it, all the usual warnings apply, such as cable breakage, plus a couple more.
This is a strong winch. 12K electrics are too, but they will stall. This one will pull until something breaks.
You can literally rip your truck in half or tear out axles. When you are getting it in a strain, you will hear things that let you know. Creaking and groaning.
Pay attention, and you will learn how tell when you are making a harder pull than normal.
If you are lightly stuck, and you start hearing hard pull noises, stop and re-evaluate.
Guy called me when he got his truck stuck up to the doors in mud. I put my bumper against a tree, and started pulling with him turning his wheels.
I could hear the cable crackling, and other noises that said I had a serious load on the system.
I stopped and told him something was wrong and we needed to find out what.
He informed me that the only thing wrong was that my winch was not what it was cracked up to be.
Being young and stupid, I took offense to that and put the transmisson back in gear.
Few seconds later, he was waving his arms and screaming stop.
It seems that he had gotten his cross member over a large hidden stump. When I kept pulling, the cross member started bending. Drawing his frame in, and moving his fan up to touch the radiator.
I gave him a ride home, and he went back with some boards, shovels, friends, and a chain saw.
They built a retention wall, dug out the mud, and went under with the chain saw and cut the stump off.
Took them all day, and in the end his doors would not open due to the distortion of the frame and body.
He finally replaced the cross-member, and bowed his frame back out with a strong bar and 20 ton hydraulic jack.
Never said anything bad about my winch again though.
Let us know how it goes, ask any questions you might have, and try to post some pics.
