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Question About Hydro Assist? (update)

1-ton

1-ton

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Does a hydro-assist steering take any pressure off the steering pump? My truck has a set of 36" tires (soon to be 37.75"), and with a stock power steering system any time my V3500 Crew Cab is moving along at a slow speed with low engine RPM's, and I try to steer a little hard to the right or left the power steering belt screams like crazy.
 
Do you mean removing stress from the work load on the pump?

West Texas Off Road pioneered a pump pressure orifice mod to raise the pressure output, they used to have a write up on their site.
 
nvrenuf said:
Do you mean removing stress from the work load on the pump?

West Texas Off Road pioneered a pump pressure orifice mod to raise the pressure output, they used to have a write up on their site.
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Yes, to the first question. My truck is a 1-ton with hydro-boost. I had a steering pump with increased pressure once, and the hydro-boost did not play well with it.
 
I don't know any of the specific details, but I talked with a guy a Benchworks Steering in Phoenix years ago about adding assist cylinder to a hydro-boost system and he said that it can be done, but it needed to be planed for. I believe that he told me that there were things that needed done in the pump and booster. I never followed through with it, but they did a beautiful job with the steering box, it nice feedback and performance.

I heard that too much pressure can cause problems without hydro-boost.
 
6872xtc said:
I don't know any of the specific details, but I talked with a guy a Benchworks Steering in Phoenix years ago about adding assist cylinder to a hydro-boost system and he said that it can be done, but it needed to be planed for. I believe that he told me that there were things that needed done in the pump and booster. I never followed through with it, but they did a beautiful job with the steering box, it nice feedback and performance.

I heard that too much pressure can cause problems without hydro-boost.
Click to expand...

I was planning on a low pressure hydro-assist system for my crew cab because it does not do any hard wheeling. I was planing on getting a 1.5" X 8" steering cylinder with a stock steering pump. that would be enough for a crew cab that only sees light to medium wheeling. My only question is will this hydro-assist system mentioned help the steering pump to not have to work as hard at low speeds and RPM's?
 
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Hydro assist always works a pump harder. You are asking it to do more. If you have belt slippage problems, work in that first. Maybe a serpentine setup.
 
K85 Octane said:
Hydro assist always works a pump harder. You are asking it to do more. If you have belt slippage problems, work in that first. Maybe a serpentine setup.
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But I wonder if there is actually less peak pressure required to operate the system , but more action of the fluid which is why there is more heat developed. The fluid is going more places and applying pressure in more places, which will build more heat. But it would take a pressure gauge to know if the peak pressure is higher, or high enough to cause an issue.

Think of how guys have used larger hydraulic cylinders when the smaller ones ran out of power with "X" size tire, or certain applications. A larger diameter cylinder piston will do more work with the same hydraulic pressure.

If the pump isn't required to make as much pressure due to increased mechanical advantage it may work below the belt traction level.
Obviously it would be beneficial to be able to solve the belt slippage regardless.
 
Running hydro assist on a 1ton crew with a 5.3 and hydro boost and 42s stock ls pump and no problems. Go for it.
 
I have not heard anyone say the hydroassist will take strain off the pump. I have heard it will take strain off the steering box and frame.

I haven't ever done any pump mods to mine. I did have the hydroboost unit modified for high flow; used to be a vendor on Pirate that did it but not sure if he's still around. Most recently I added a steering box from PSC that was supposed to have flow modifications done. I don't remember much difference after doing either one in regards to functioning of the steering. But my hope was the flow mods would help the pump hold up better which has been the case so far.
 
There is somebody on this web site that had a hydro-boost modified for higher pressure steering pump, but it cost a lot of money. I do not want to spend a lot of money on a hydro-assist system for a truck that does not do a lot of wheeling. I want to put together a low budget system. I can put together a Red Hat hydro-assist steering box, PSC steering pump (no reservoir), 1.5"X 8" hydro-assist cylinder, and a hydraulic hose kit for about $800.

PSC sells steering pumps that are high volume/high pressure. Their pumps put out a peak pressure of 1600 PSI while the stock Saginaw pump puts out a peak pressure of 1200 PSI. There are pressure valve shim kits for Saginaw pumps that can limit the PSI pressure.
 
To answer the OP......I don't believe that hydro assist is the answer to your problem. The pump should should not be squealing in those conditions. The only thing hydro assist does is give the tires more power to turn in case they are wedged in rocks or deep mud, but it requires as much if not more power steering pump work to do so. You need to fix the current problem you have. I have a K5 with the factory 6.2 diesel and originally equipped with AC. The belt routing had one v-belt just for the power steering pump to crank pulley, and then a second groove on the p/s pulley for a belt that went from the crank, partially around the p/s pulley, and then routed up around the AC compressor. When I deleted the AC I tried just using the one original belt on the p/s pulley but it would always squeal (this was trying different belts, different pumps, different pulleys, etc...plus this was with and without hydro assist). Finally sized up a second belt to install which fixed the problem. Not quite as simple since the two grooves on the p/s pulley are different sizes and the crank pulley has two different sizes, so the two belts are different sizes.

In regards to hydro assist with hydro boost. I installed a 1.5" cylinder steering cylinder on mine rig years ago. Played around with doing the pressure mods on the pump but always had issues with the pump dying. Finally went back to stock and everything works good 95% of the time. Never had issues turning 39.5" tires on a locked front end. The only problem that pops up occasionally is with the engine at idle and braking, the steering can get pretty stiff/slow. This is because the braking system takes priority over steering. Only notice it, for example, when cruising down a back road, taking your foot off the throttle and hitting the brakes hard to quickly slow down, and then try to making a quick/relatively sharp turn onto another road. Just braking to go around a curve in the road is not a problem, it's just braking hard and trying to quickly turn sharp onto another road.
 
6.2Blazer said:
To answer the OP......I don't believe that hydro assist is the answer to your problem. The pump should should not be squealing in those conditions. The only thing hydro assist does is give the tires more power to turn in case they are wedged in rocks or deep mud, but it requires as much if not more power steering pump work to do so. You need to fix the current problem you have. I have a K5 with the factory 6.2 diesel and originally equipped with AC. The belt routing had one v-belt just for the power steering pump to crank pulley, and then a second groove on the p/s pulley for a belt that went from the crank, partially around the p/s pulley, and then routed up around the AC compressor. When I deleted the AC I tried just using the one original belt on the p/s pulley but it would always squeal (this was trying different belts, different pumps, different pulleys, etc...plus this was with and without hydro assist). Finally sized up a second belt to install which fixed the problem. Not quite as simple since the two grooves on the p/s pulley are different sizes and the crank pulley has two different sizes, so the two belts are different sizes.

In regards to hydro assist with hydro boost. I installed a 1.5" cylinder steering cylinder on mine rig years ago. Played around with doing the pressure mods on the pump but always had issues with the pump dying. Finally went back to stock and everything works good 95% of the time. Never had issues turning 39.5" tires on a locked front end. The only problem that pops up occasionally is with the engine at idle and braking, the steering can get pretty stiff/slow. This is because the braking system takes priority over steering. Only notice it, for example, when cruising down a back road, taking your foot off the throttle and hitting the brakes hard to quickly slow down, and then try to making a quick/relatively sharp turn onto another road. Just braking to go around a curve in the road is not a problem, it's just braking hard and trying to quickly turn sharp onto another road.
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I think you just nailed it. I do only have one belt on the steering pump pulley right know. I put an over-sized 1/2" belt on it to help get more surface grip, but that is not doing the job completely. I have most of the parts to put together for an all new A/C system, but not just yet. I have tried to find a combination of belts that will allow two belts to tighten over the steering pump pulley, but none of them seem to work.
 
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sweetk30 said:
serp belt swap for the win if it was mine .
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I would have to change a lot of stuff for that. The 1991 V3500 crew cab with a small block was the one and only last year of model vehicle equipped with V-belts. The water pump is a clockwise rotation because of that. I would have to change that to a counter-clockwise pump in order to run a serpentine system among other brackets and all that.
 
mrk5 said:
I have not heard anyone say the hydroassist will take strain off the pump. I have heard it will take strain off the steering box and frame.

I haven't ever done any pump mods to mine. I did have the hydroboost unit modified for high flow; used to be a vendor on Pirate that did it but not sure if he's still around. Most recently I added a steering box from PSC that was supposed to have flow modifications done. I don't remember much difference after doing either one in regards to functioning of the steering. But my hope was the flow mods would help the pump hold up better which has been the case so far.
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I doubt that many have been concerned about whether or not there is a difference in power requirements of the pump with or without an assist cylinder. I would guess that the main concern is whether not the steering works.
My thought process is based from the fact that the steering box has a hydraulic cylinder inside it. And 2 cylinders working in tandem require less pressure, but more flow to do the same amount of work.
Back when I worked on hydraulic systems daily, it was easy to see the differences in circuits that had larger cylinders, or pairs of cylinders operating with the same flow and pressure potential of a single pump. It's also much easier to build pressure in a smaller circuit partially due to the restriction to flow of oil.
It would be simple to prove if there is a difference on a truck that has hydro-assist, with a T in the pump pressure line hooked to a gauge. Check the pressure while turning stopped, then see what happens after disconnecting the cylinder hydraulically and mechanically.
 
6872xtc said:
My thought process is based from the fact that the steering box has a hydraulic cylinder inside it. And 2 cylinders working in tandem require less pressure, but more flow to do the same amount of work.
Click to expand...

That is why a high volume steering pump from PSC with the pressure valving PSI turned down would be a good set-up for my truck with hydro-boost.
 
1-ton said:
I was planning on a low pressure hydro-assist system for my crew cab because it does not do any hard wheeling. I was planing on getting a 1.5" X 8" steering cylinder with a stock steering pump. that would be enough for a crew cab that only sees light to medium wheeling. My only question is will this hydro-assist system mentioned help the steering pump to not have to work as hard at low speeds and RPM's?
Click to expand...
Do you have a single belt or 2 on the pump?
With hydroboost you need 2
 
Look into March pulleys...iirc, they make kits to covert the power steering pump over to a serpentine belt without disturbing the other belts.... I don't know what engine you have, but old SBC and BBC setups are fairly common.

I have a PSC pump, steering box and ram on my buggy with 44's.. I installed March brackets and serp pulley's and have never heard a belt squeal at full lock.

this is one of the pump pulleys, they have tons of stuff, I'm sure they can get you set up!

https://marchperformance.com/chevy/...ess-fit-power-steering-serpentine-pulley.html
 
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