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Rant: K-5 Brakes

T

TankerCadaver

Guest
Okay,

I've been a shadetree mechanic since I was 14. While I haven't worked on a huge variety of vehicles I've wrenched on enough of them to know that there are some fairly common and logical engineering and assembly principles that all manufacturers employ.

Typically I can dig into most repair jobs without cracking the manual but a lot of times I'll browse the manual here and there if I get stuck on something.

I haven't been a K-5 owner long but I hope my experiences last night aren't a preview of what's to come.

I stop by the parts store and pick up 2 rotors, 2 drums, pads, shoes and some other odds and ends. Plop down next to my rig last night at about 9pm thinking by midnight I should have a brake job done and hopefully get new shocks on all four courners. Wrong. :doah:

Taking the caliper off was very easy... hey, this is gonna be a breeze I think. Then, looking at the hub/rotor assembly I'm like... WHAT? You gotta pull the whole frickin' hub apart, dissassemble it and take the rotor and hub off as a unit. Then I had to put the mother on a press to force 'em apart. What... the studs are pressed into the rotor? :haha: At this point all I can do is laugh. Who is the moronic engineer that came up with this winner? So you've got a 4x4 that needs the whole freekin' hub guts exposed to rust, brake dust, and who knows what just to do a brake job? What if you need to do this on the trail or in a gravel parking lot somewhere???

So after trying to figure out stupid I get to the shock absorber on that corner. How 'bout that nut and washer inside the frame rail right next to a hard line? Pure genius.

Well, finally got it all back together and burned up my allotted time of 3.5hrs.

1 corner down... 3 to go.

God please tell me the brake drums on the rear aren't bolted on behind the axle flange!


Tank'
 
Nah drums come off pretty easy, just loosen the star shaped thing inside with a brake tool and they come right off. Rear shocks are pretty easy to, pull the bolt out on the mount on the axle and take the nut off the upper mount and they come right off too. Good luck with the rest.
 
You obviously haven't been working on too many older trucks... until you get into unitized bearing assemblies all solid axle trucks (not nessisarily jeeps mind you) have rotors mounted to the back of the bearing hubs with studs pressed in from the back.

If you know anything about machine design you would see it was probably a comprimise between rotor strength/robust design and assembly time/maintenance convinence. Obviously the robust design was more important back in the day. Not so much on newer cars and trucks though.
 
kennyw said:
You obviously haven't been working on too many older trucks... until you get into unitized bearing assemblies all solid axle trucks (not nessisarily jeeps mind you) have rotors mounted to the back of the bearing hubs with studs pressed in from the back.

If you know anything about machine design you would see it was probably a comprimise between rotor strength/robust design and assembly time/maintenance convinence. Obviously the robust design was more important back in the day. Not so much on newer cars and trucks though.
Click to expand...

You are right... my exp. w/ 4x4 has been more with Heeps (like my '91 XJ) and other light trucks. I've worked on older trucks but not 4x4s. I can see the point about strength vs. servicability.

But this is a rant thread - at least now I should be able to do the other side quickly now that I have my press set up and I'll be quicker on the hub dissassembly! :D
 
TankerCadaver said:
Okay,

While I haven't worked on a huge variety of vehicles I've wrenched on enough of them to know that there are some fairly common and logical engineering and assembly principles that all manufacturers employ.
Click to expand...

I think the generalization of the second half of your sentence is untrue and is only founded on the first half. :D It sounds like you haven't worked on many full-size trucks. Yes, the rotors are difficult to change, but I don't see why you would ever need to do this on the trail. The rotors are a piece of cake to change on most small cars, but many of them only last 20,000 miles. The rotors in my K5 have been there for at least 90,000 and they are still good. Now look under your car at a wear item like a ball joint that is riveted in place and tell me how you like changing that :-) How about the new cars that require cross-member removal for an oil change or engine movement to change the plugs?

Sorry that things are going slowly for you. I'm sure as time goes on it will get easier.
 
I didn't have any problems doing my brakes.. first time ever was one my Burb. Did them on my mother's S-10 recently and was surprised at the fact the rotor came right off after pulling the calipers.

Nice thing about these trucks is they usually don't warp the rotors.. take the rotor/hub assembly in to be turned and that's it. The S-10 and my Ranger both ate rotors, and you can always tell when it's time for a brake job :eek1:
 
Is there much difference in assembly/disassembly from the front brakes on these trucks, and rear disks on a FWD car?
 
i rember when i poped my roter changing cherry. good times. now you know how to do it, its a breeze. you have to take those hubs apart to replace axle shafts, lug studs, bearings ext. so its a good thing to know. but while you have it all taken apart you might want to do the wheel bearings if you need them anytime soon.
 
the hub assembly just like anything else with a bit of practice i can swap out brakes on a side of a truck in 20 minutes. having had 10 bolts for about 8 years on offroad trucks i know all to well about tearing those bearings apart. also those lugs really aint pressed in to hard. i usually just thread a lug nut on and drop the weight of a 10lb hammer on them and they will fall right out
 
When we did ours - we lucked out (kind of). The rotors were so f'd we just replaced the whole unit. Finding the right one was a problem.
 
TankerCadaver said:
Taking the caliper off was very easy... hey, this is gonna be a breeze I think. Then, looking at the hub/rotor assembly I'm like... WHAT? You gotta pull the whole frickin' hub apart, dissassemble it and take the rotor and hub off as a unit. Then I had to put the mother on a press to force 'em apart. What... the studs are pressed into the rotor? :haha: At this point all I can do is laugh. Who is the moronic engineer that came up with this winner?
Click to expand...

That's very common on 4WD trucks, there are probably more out there that are disassembled like this than anything else.

What's the big frickin' deal about removing a couple spindle nuts and 6-8 studs? It makes a 15 minute brake job into a 30 minute one.


dyeager535 said:
Is there much difference in assembly/disassembly from the front brakes on these trucks, and rear disks on a FWD car?
Click to expand...

What's so hard about doing rear discs on a FWD car? I've done mine and several others and it was as easy as can be :confused:
 
73redblaze said:
i rember when i poped my roter changing cherry. good times. now you know how to do it, its a breeze. you have to take those hubs apart to replace axle shafts, lug studs, bearings ext. so its a good thing to know. but while you have it all taken apart you might want to do the wheel bearings if you need them anytime soon.
Click to expand...


Thanks! Now this is a "nice" response to a rant!!! :D

Yeah, now I'm edumacated on their construction so the driver's side should be a breeze.

I forgot to add, part of the whole frustration was the fact that my hydraulic ram in my press decided to stop working too. So I had to swap in a bottle jack that I had. It worked but that also added to the over all time to do the project.
 
38377k5 said:
What's so hard about doing rear discs on a FWD car? I've done mine and several others and it was as easy as can be :confused:
Click to expand...

Aren't a lot of the FWD rear stuff "one piece" that requires you to press out studs and what not? Still have bearings and all that to deal with, not much different than the truck front is it? Short of the hubs of course, but that's 4wd for you.
 
dyeager535 said:
Aren't a lot of the FWD rear stuff "one piece" that requires you to press out studs and what not?
Click to expand...

No, most are rotors that slide on over a sealed bearing hub unit. Very easy to change out the rotor or bearing hub if needed.

But to the original post. When you do the brakes it is a good time to repack the wheel bearings... so you would need to remove the bearing hub to do that at the same time anyway.
 
Not 100% positive but im pretty sure that my 96 z28 has the pressed in studs in the a "backer plate" then the rotor sits in front of that. been a while since i looked at it. thing that sucks is i broke off a stud, well i have to pull the axle shaft to change the stud. if it was just pressed into the rotor it would make things alot simpler.
 
slyguy_22 said:
Not 100% positive but im pretty sure that my 96 z28 has the pressed in studs in the a "backer plate" then the rotor sits in front of that. been a while since i looked at it. thing that sucks is i broke off a stud, well i have to pull the axle shaft to change the stud. if it was just pressed into the rotor it would make things alot simpler.
Click to expand...

I just changed the rear brakes on my brother's 96 Z28 a couple weeks ago, no pressing involved. Just have to remove the caliper and the rotor comes right off.

I'm not sure that I've done the front brakes on that car, so maybe the front is different.
 
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