yunit
1/2 ton status
BadDog said:
So are these stock coils? How long are they without any weight on them? I know DBLAZER used 8" TJ coils and he loves them.
CK5
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Rear Links - And so it begins - finally!
- Thread starter BadDog
- Start date
So are these stock coils? How long are they without any weight on them? I know DBLAZER used 8" TJ coils and he loves them.
Not sure. I measured them, but can't recall right now and can't find my note. 18" comes to mind?
Also, updated the progress page with the weekend's results.
Also, updated the progress page with the weekend's results.
Btwn the tabs themslves there wants to be something to make them distort together. Any pair of tabs with lateral forces on them (i.e. lateral axle locating forces) needs triangulation to frame, x-member, where ever you can easily reach. None of this needs to be 1/4" unless the force or distance is large. Most could be in the 1/8" to 10ga. range.
Think of each bracket pair as being a lever, and then gusset to make that lever as short as possible.
Avoid hot rolled shapes as much as possible. They are essentially annealed and bend easily. Cold rolled is much stiffer due to the cold working.
Think of each bracket pair as being a lever, and then gusset to make that lever as short as possible.
Avoid hot rolled shapes as much as possible. They are essentially annealed and bend easily. Cold rolled is much stiffer due to the cold working.
Can you be more specific, given the pictures and CAD drawings?
I already planned shear plates in 1/4" for the backs of both sets of tall brackets (top on cross and top on axle, axle is done, cross is not). With the shear plates on the long ones, and the rod end bolted in solid in one position, plus one of those spacers like you see in some of the pics in the other to give more 3D structure, I don't think I'll really need a shear plate on the front, even on the long ones.
They will also get small shear plates on the bottom under the cross member brackets, but that's more to provide extra joint area (to keep from ripping the welds out of the 0.188 wall tube) and protect the lower brackets and rod ends (like a skid plate).
As for bracing, I've been thinking of that too. The upper brackets on the cross member come over half way up the frame rail. And they will have a shear plate on the back. I was thinking a piece of 1" x 0.120" round tube from the rear shear plate (gusset into the bracket plates to get the shear plate out of "bending") and tie into the frame vertical about 8" forward (in line with the link). The short brackets on the cross shouldn't need anything.
I've got a problem on the axle towers though. They have another 1/4" shear plate going between them to help handle the lateral loads which will be high. I'm not to worried about that, but I may also add a horizontal triangle gusset since I've got 2 convienient pieces of scrap from the other plasma work. However, I'm a bit worried about their ability to withstand the torque load, and there is not much way to brace it front to rear. That's one of the reasons I decided to wait to weld them to the bridge. My clear lens is completely fogged for some reason and I don't have a spare, so I couldn't see the joint very well even with a pair of 500W hallogens on the work.
That weld is going to require 3 passes, and I want it dead on (as much as possible).
I already planned shear plates in 1/4" for the backs of both sets of tall brackets (top on cross and top on axle, axle is done, cross is not). With the shear plates on the long ones, and the rod end bolted in solid in one position, plus one of those spacers like you see in some of the pics in the other to give more 3D structure, I don't think I'll really need a shear plate on the front, even on the long ones.
They will also get small shear plates on the bottom under the cross member brackets, but that's more to provide extra joint area (to keep from ripping the welds out of the 0.188 wall tube) and protect the lower brackets and rod ends (like a skid plate).
As for bracing, I've been thinking of that too. The upper brackets on the cross member come over half way up the frame rail. And they will have a shear plate on the back. I was thinking a piece of 1" x 0.120" round tube from the rear shear plate (gusset into the bracket plates to get the shear plate out of "bending") and tie into the frame vertical about 8" forward (in line with the link). The short brackets on the cross shouldn't need anything.
I've got a problem on the axle towers though. They have another 1/4" shear plate going between them to help handle the lateral loads which will be high. I'm not to worried about that, but I may also add a horizontal triangle gusset since I've got 2 convienient pieces of scrap from the other plasma work. However, I'm a bit worried about their ability to withstand the torque load, and there is not much way to brace it front to rear. That's one of the reasons I decided to wait to weld them to the bridge. My clear lens is completely fogged for some reason and I don't have a spare, so I couldn't see the joint very well even with a pair of 500W hallogens on the work.
That weld is going to require 3 passes, and I want it dead on (as much as possible).I would wrap a piece from the x-member up over the top of the outer tabs to tie them together. Same with the lowers, but also do their bottoms. In the lower rearward corner of the uppers I would weld in a piece of round tube (perhaps that's why that corner exisits?) That, or plate the angled edges that dive to the lower corner of the rect. tube. The lower plates should probably have holes in them and should def have a sizeable notch where they meet the rect. tube so that gunk can't build up in there.BadDog said:
I would string a tube from frame rail flange to frame rail flange and tag it to the top of both upper brackets. Then bring a pair of tubes from the tops of the uppers to the rail end of the diagonal braces. I'm not sure about how, but I think the lower tabs need some sort of brace above/fwd of them.
These don't have to be huge tubes, 1" or 1.25" x .09 should be fine.
Sounds like pretty close to my most agressive ideas for plating (shear plates). In summary (to check my understanding of your post):
Bottom of each set, tied into the cross member, but with drains of course. Sort of like a skid plate.
Back (forward side) of each set. Already planned for the tall ones, but not for the short ones. With the short height, I didn't think it would be needed, but maybe do it anyway.
Lower angled front (rearward side) of tall brackets. Considering that too since they are long enough to sort of "wave in the wind". Leaving a 1/2" concave gap at the bottom should work for most of the crud draining.
Tall brackets gusseted in somehow. Can't go across as you suggest since I moved the bracket forward (and adjusted my marks). The drive shaft will now be in the way. Forces on those tall brackets are in the vast majority channeled back parallel to the plates anyway, so I'll probably just run a tube back from the top, in line with the link, and tied to the frame. Might even run another tube off perpendicular (horizontally) to the link and into the near rail so that it can help with any side loads.
Hmm, with the stabilization of the rod end AND the dummy tube in the other hole, combined with the upper tube running perpendicular to the link and into the near rail, I wonder if it would really need the lower angled plating?
Any thoughts on the axle towers? Think they will hold?
Bottom of each set, tied into the cross member, but with drains of course. Sort of like a skid plate.
Back (forward side) of each set. Already planned for the tall ones, but not for the short ones. With the short height, I didn't think it would be needed, but maybe do it anyway.
Lower angled front (rearward side) of tall brackets. Considering that too since they are long enough to sort of "wave in the wind". Leaving a 1/2" concave gap at the bottom should work for most of the crud draining.
Tall brackets gusseted in somehow. Can't go across as you suggest since I moved the bracket forward (and adjusted my marks). The drive shaft will now be in the way. Forces on those tall brackets are in the vast majority channeled back parallel to the plates anyway, so I'll probably just run a tube back from the top, in line with the link, and tied to the frame. Might even run another tube off perpendicular (horizontally) to the link and into the near rail so that it can help with any side loads.
Hmm, with the stabilization of the rod end AND the dummy tube in the other hole, combined with the upper tube running perpendicular to the link and into the near rail, I wonder if it would really need the lower angled plating?
Any thoughts on the axle towers? Think they will hold?
Oh, and another question for you engineers out there. Given the weight of my rig and the fact that the suspension forces are all going into that one cross member (especially on violent climbs), what do you think about my mounting plans?
Basically, I have a 7" long piece of 2 x 0.250 angle iron that will be welded on top of the 2/3 square tube which will be capped. The vertical side of the angle will run up the outside of the vertical wall of the rails, the horizontal part will fit up to the lower horizontal wall of the rail. I made it 7" long to help spread the load, and by tying into the vertical wall of the rail, it should be pretty strong. Current plan is to attach with 4 G8 1/2 bolts and large 0.120 hardened washers.
Will that be strong enough? Seems like plenty, but that's a guess and I lack the knowledge to work out the numbers with any degree of confidence.
Also, I need to take the torque load from those tall upper link brackets too. If the tube itself can handle the torque, can the end attachment? Or does that bolt on mount alone require that I brace those tall brackets straight to the frame independently to handle the torque load?
Basically, I have a 7" long piece of 2 x 0.250 angle iron that will be welded on top of the 2/3 square tube which will be capped. The vertical side of the angle will run up the outside of the vertical wall of the rails, the horizontal part will fit up to the lower horizontal wall of the rail. I made it 7" long to help spread the load, and by tying into the vertical wall of the rail, it should be pretty strong. Current plan is to attach with 4 G8 1/2 bolts and large 0.120 hardened washers.
Will that be strong enough? Seems like plenty, but that's a guess and I lack the knowledge to work out the numbers with any degree of confidence.
Also, I need to take the torque load from those tall upper link brackets too. If the tube itself can handle the torque, can the end attachment? Or does that bolt on mount alone require that I brace those tall brackets straight to the frame independently to handle the torque load?
Updated the page again.
Brook:
I expect the exhaust will go over the lower (inner) bracket on the driver's side, staying high over the links before dumping above the axle tube. Think about the way a typical exhaust goes over the rear axle, and that's how I see it going over the driver's side upper link.
Brook:
I expect the exhaust will go over the lower (inner) bracket on the driver's side, staying high over the links before dumping above the axle tube. Think about the way a typical exhaust goes over the rear axle, and that's how I see it going over the driver's side upper link.
At the very least I would gusset the tall mounts on the x-member to the fwd edge of the x-member tube. Better would be some stringers that triangulate them to the frame rails. If the stringers can't happen then add a vert. plate at each end of the x-member tube that is the length of your angle. The idea is to stop the tall brackets from being able to twist the tube. Could even extend this so far as to make skidplate 'ramps' for the tube where it is under the rails.
Plan of the moment is to take a piece of 1" x 0.120" round tube and weld a 1/2" nut in the end. Then drill a hole in the 1/4" back plate of the tall brackets to run a bolt through and into the tube. Probably reinforce the plate to trasfer loads to/from the side plates and not bend the back plate if loads got really high (not expected). Anyway, that tube would run forward about 8" and into the vertical wall of the frame rail with another 1/2" bolt holding it in place. Between the cross member and the brace in line with the upper links, I think that would work...
Ramps for the cross member won't be necessary if I modify the skid plate to tie into the bottom of the cross member. It stops a few inches way right now, but that can be corrected. Then, when I'm setting on a shelf and sliding along, it should transition smoothly from the skid, to the cross bar, and potentially onto the links...
Ramps for the cross member won't be necessary if I modify the skid plate to tie into the bottom of the cross member. It stops a few inches way right now, but that can be corrected. Then, when I'm setting on a shelf and sliding along, it should transition smoothly from the skid, to the cross bar, and potentially onto the links...
Sounds good to me.
Just in case they're new, two tricks I use for the nut-inside-a-tube deal:
Use a coupler nut, it's longer so I can get more threads in the tube and it allows me to drop some Rosette welds in there too.
Try to buy the nut unplated, when that fails I use Muriatic Acid. Some words of warning about Muriatic, the fumes will corrode what ever they land on like you've never seen b4. Rinse with water and then immediately blow-dry or they will rust b4 your eyes.
Just in case they're new, two tricks I use for the nut-inside-a-tube deal:
Use a coupler nut, it's longer so I can get more threads in the tube and it allows me to drop some Rosette welds in there too.
Try to buy the nut unplated, when that fails I use Muriatic Acid. Some words of warning about Muriatic, the fumes will corrode what ever they land on like you've never seen b4. Rinse with water and then immediately blow-dry or they will rust b4 your eyes.
Cool. I don't have the coupler nuts, so I may just turn down some regular G5s, or maybe I can get some if I get out. I'll also look into the muratic acid, seems I have to weld galvi quite a bit lately, and I'm tired of holding my breath...
Got some more pics tonight. Cross member is pretty much done except for the stringers. Bridge is pretty much done except welding into place. That just leaves the axle tube brackets, the links themselves, and the spring mounts... A little luck and one nice day this weekend should have it on the new suspension. After that, finish the fuel cell and replumb the brakes and fuel lines. Also a bit of cage redo to protect the elevated fuel cell and provide a more secure place for a cooler...
Got some more pics tonight. Cross member is pretty much done except for the stringers. Bridge is pretty much done except welding into place. That just leaves the axle tube brackets, the links themselves, and the spring mounts... A little luck and one nice day this weekend should have it on the new suspension. After that, finish the fuel cell and replumb the brakes and fuel lines. Also a bit of cage redo to protect the elevated fuel cell and provide a more secure place for a cooler...
yunit
1/2 ton status
Coming together nicely! 
A friend of mine ran across an article online somewhere that disputed parts of the galvanic poisoning thing. Was a well written document, I'll see if I can find the bookmark at home tonight.
That being said, even if it is not a Health hazzard I'm sure the contaminents don't do the weld bead metal any good.
I pour out just a little acid at a time into a plastic cup and quickly recap the bottle. Those fumes combined with my salt air make a mess out of things pretty fast. Remember that saying from Chemistry lab? "Do what you oughter, add Acid to Water" If you need/want to blend it down, pour it into a cup with the water already in it.
If you REALLY want to make a mess with the Muriatic, drop a Q-jet body in it.
That being said, even if it is not a Health hazzard I'm sure the contaminents don't do the weld bead metal any good.
I pour out just a little acid at a time into a plastic cup and quickly recap the bottle. Those fumes combined with my salt air make a mess out of things pretty fast. Remember that saying from Chemistry lab? "Do what you oughter, add Acid to Water" If you need/want to blend it down, pour it into a cup with the water already in it.
If you REALLY want to make a mess with the Muriatic, drop a Q-jet body in it.
Updated progress page with the week-ends progress. Unfortunately a big gun show and "time with the wife" cut into my planned progress big time. Still, the links are in, just didn't get the springs done...
Oh, I also just added some comments/questions about the axle tower. These are related to some of the other discussions on this thread, but may make more sense with the new pics. Look down at the very end...
Why not plate in btwn the bridge and the housing?
I'd fill that in with 10 ga. or 3/16" A brace from as high as you can get in there btwn the towers down to the zone of the pinion support. This could only be a good thing as I forsee the bridge slowly collapsing over time. I'd weld it on unless bolting it means that you can go higher up the the towers.
I'd fill that in with 10 ga. or 3/16" A brace from as high as you can get in there btwn the towers down to the zone of the pinion support. This could only be a good thing as I forsee the bridge slowly collapsing over time. I'd weld it on unless bolting it means that you can go higher up the the towers.
I don't think the bridge is going to be a problem. It's 1/2 CR plate, and the center of it actually touches the top of the diff housing, so it can't go down. The sides could be plated into the diff housing, but going into cast steel, not sure it's worth it.
And I can't weld to the pinion bracket. It has to be removable to service the pinion. If you look closely at the pictures, you can see the bolts that connect the pinion bracket to the bridge. The pinion bracket bolts to the pinion carrier in front, laps over the tab on the bridge, and bolts to it with 3 G8 1/2" bolts. That pinion bracket goes almost to within 1/2" of the towers already. So the only way to do it is to bolt it in top and bottom.
And I can't weld to the pinion bracket. It has to be removable to service the pinion. If you look closely at the pictures, you can see the bolts that connect the pinion bracket to the bridge. The pinion bracket bolts to the pinion carrier in front, laps over the tab on the bridge, and bolts to it with 3 G8 1/2" bolts. That pinion bracket goes almost to within 1/2" of the towers already. So the only way to do it is to bolt it in top and bottom.
Got the links welded today and flexed her out. See page for pics...
