Stomis
Professional Amateur
I don't ever remember having this problem with my crossover
CK5
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Regret loss of rag joint?
- Thread starter Mastiff
- Start date
Teh coolaid! Dont drink it Adam!
Lols.
I am not against running one. But to get the old one off I had to cut that tapered bolt off, and I just need to buy another or fab a mount. Also the tie Rod end with the hole in it ended up in the passenger side for some reason.... I can't remember why.
I forget where I said jitters, I think with regard to what a rag joint could soak up. I just mean, small, high frequency bumpsteer. Big bumps = big bump steer, small bumps = small bumpsteer = jitter.
I'm a little confused why bumpsteer should be worse with crossover. I think as a general rule, the steeper the draglink angle, the worse it should be (the angle from the knuckle to the arm, forget bends). This angle tells you how much the steering arm needs to move to account for a certain amount of vertical wheel travel. Since the vertical distance from the pitman to the knuckle should be the same, and the horizontal distance is way more with crossover, you'd think the angle would be shallower (better).
The before/after pics below don't give anything close to exact measurements, but the crossover looks steeper to my eye. One thing is that the drop on the pitman may have been more in the push-pull setup.
Before:
After:
It's simple.
Push pull, the drag link moves with the movement of the leaf springs. It's just really short so it limits out faster.
Cross over, the drag link is trying to move side to side in its arc travel, leaf springs do not move side to side like a coil spring can, so that movement needs to go somewhere and it goes to the steering.
You can instal a panhard bar parrallel and equal to the drag link and force the springs to push side to side. But I guarantee your spring life and spring bushing life will be drastically shortened if you do anything other than mall crawl.
Push pull, the drag link moves with the movement of the leaf springs. It's just really short so it limits out faster.
Cross over, the drag link is trying to move side to side in its arc travel, leaf springs do not move side to side like a coil spring can, so that movement needs to go somewhere and it goes to the steering.
You can instal a panhard bar parrallel and equal to the drag link and force the springs to push side to side. But I guarantee your spring life and spring bushing life will be drastically shortened if you do anything other than mall crawl.
I don't follow. Bumpsteer happens because the distance from the pitman arm to the steering knuckle varies as the suspension goes up and down. This is true for crossover and push-pull.
One thing that just occurred to me: In the case of push-pull, as the suspension goes up, the spring will move back because of the rear shackle. This will mitigate some of the length difference. Maybe that's what you were trying to say?
One thing that just occurred to me: In the case of push-pull, as the suspension goes up, the spring will move back because of the rear shackle. This will mitigate some of the length difference. Maybe that's what you were trying to say?
Look at the drag link as an arc. The pitman arm is the center. When you move it from that fixed point up and down the axle end will go slightly side to side through the travel. As it moves up it will want to push the axle to the passenger side. As it moves down it will want to pull it to the driver side.
But leaf springs don't move side to side, they just go up and down so the travel of the arc that the drag link is trying to move in gets transitioned into it forcing the steering arm side to side, thus moving your steering wheel and turning tires side to side. Aka bump steer.
That is why jeeps have a panhard bar. It forces the axle itself side to side because the upper link is fixed to the frame and cannot move. Where the drag links center aka pitman arm can move.
But leaf springs don't move side to side, they just go up and down so the travel of the arc that the drag link is trying to move in gets transitioned into it forcing the steering arm side to side, thus moving your steering wheel and turning tires side to side. Aka bump steer.
That is why jeeps have a panhard bar. It forces the axle itself side to side because the upper link is fixed to the frame and cannot move. Where the drag links center aka pitman arm can move.
I drew you a pretty picture to show the side to side movement I'm referring to.
I get that, but I think it applies to push-pull just the same.
Push pull is setup much more horizontal. Closer to horizontal at ride height the less sided to side during travel.
You're is already angled down at ride height so the movement is greater up or down.
Then throw in your soft springs compared to stock stiffer springs, and you get more bump steer even over the small stuff.
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
I'm guessing you have a bad part somewhere or the springs are just softer (like they are supposed to be). I have crossover, 37" tires, no steering stabilizer, no hydro assist, no springless arms, and I have no bump steer or any other steering issue. I've even had it up to 90mph, but don't tell anyone. Only obvious difference is I have stiffer tuff country springs.
Why would it be? Don't they both have to get from the height of the pitman to the height of the knuckle?
One thing too is that I got a slightly tighter ratio steering box, this would make the steering wheel move more for the same deflection.
I think I'll try to take a little phone video of the steering wheel while I drive around. I didn't mean to imply it was scary on flat roads, and it has nothing to do with speed. It's just when I drive on bumpy roads, the wheel is constantly going back and forth a little.
I don't know if it's related, but my return to center isn't the best. After a u-turn for example, it'll go 90% of the way back only. My CUCV does better and they're both D60 front ends.
Yes. I also think the shackle movement helps.
I'm also not saying that mine does any better than yours etc. But it doesn't really bother me at all. Just pointing out why bump steer happens, in my mind anyways.
I'm still running the original 1987 rag joint. No issues.
The only time I notice bump steer is going from full stuff to full unload.
Now roll steer is a whole different issue for me.
But I'm really not much help here.
The only time I notice bump steer is going from full stuff to full unload.
Now roll steer is a whole different issue for me.
But I'm really not much help here.
