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Request for wisdom, some pics

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Fuels1ut

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Well I'm hoping for the best here. On Friday I replaced the king pin upper bushing and spring, on the d60, with the spring eliminator kit from ORD. The reason for this is the death wobble. Anyways today I drove the beast around and 3 times it came back. What should I do now? I would hope that I don't need to do the whole front end but If that what it takes, I have some PBR left. Any thoughts?

20131215_102356.jpg

Merica.jpg
 
What, specifically, was your method for setting up the spring eliminator kit, from the moment you started working on the truck?
 
Started by getting the axle on a stand and getting the tire off. Pulled the cover plate off and the old spring and bushing. Cleaned as much old grease and bs out as possible. Grease the new bushing and aligned it into the knuckle. Put the spring eliminator on then the cover plate. Torqued the ds down to 25ft.lbs. Repeat on ps except for torquing due to lack of equipment.
 
caster angle of axle ?

worn drag link ends ( dre ) ?

worn tie rod ends ( tre ) ?

lower king pin bearings ?

toe setting on axle if to much in/out it can cause problems .
 
Fuels1ut said:
Repeat on ps except for torquing due to lack of equipment.
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This might be part of the issue. Also, when torquing you need to have the wheel on it, and turn the wheel back and forth (R/L) to make sure you have enough drag. It shouldn't be loose and easy to move by hand, but it shouldn't be grunt work either.

When I did this to mine, I called up WFO and asked them for the proper installation process. If I recall right, they said 16 lb-ft is what they use as a starting point, but then they further adjust by feel according to how much drag they want in the wheel.

I'd first test the drag on the wheel. But at 25lbs of torque, I'd suspect you're likely tight enough. And since you're under there again, it doesn't take much to check those other rod ends as others have suggested. And they're good suggestions since the wobble existed before and after the installation.
 
sweetk30 said:
caster angle of axle ?

worn drag link ends ( dre ) ?

worn tie rod ends ( tre ) ?

lower king pin bearings ?

toe setting on axle if to much in/out it can cause problems .
Click to expand...

All these are good things to check, however my experience with this, especially looking at your pics and the tire size you are running, is the kingpin 60 was never designed to handle a tire that big. My older brother went completly through his d60 before putting it in with brand new everthing. And on 37's he still got DW. Really the only thing to "solve" this issue is either hydro assist or I have seen some guys spend money one a really nice steering stabilizer and it has helped.

Once again, just my experience
 
Respectfully, I disagree with that analysis. I have 38" tires and had no wobble on my 60 (with no steering stabilizer) prior to doing hydro assist. And while I don't wheel the piss out of my truck, I do drive the Rubicon Trail and similar, and it holds up great. If you do hydro assist before you fix the issue, you'll just be covering up a problem rather than fixing it. I strongly believe that you can solve this issue, and should, before doing hydro assist.

I do have to keep my king pins adjusted - it's not a one-time set it and forget it type thing.

Another thing to check would be the rear front-spring shackles. I've had those bolts loosen up and allow things to get pretty wobbly. I ended up installing pinch nuts to solve that issue permanently.
 
colbystephens said:
If you do hydro assist before you fix the issue, you'll just be covering up a problem rather than fixing it.
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I have heard multiple people say this before, and I disagree with this. People keep saying all you are doing is masking the problem. However once I went to hydro assist (for offroad purposes and to get rid of death wobble), I have now been running it for a year and a half, and when I inspected my king pins and bearings, they looked the exact same as when I first did hydro assist and in great condition. So is it really masking, or fixing....in this case I fail to see the difference. If you don't have DW anymore then..... :D

Once again, just my experience with d60 DW. I am not saying I am 100% right, just trying to throw another perspective in here
 
Kay86K5 said:
I have heard multiple people say this before, and I disagree with this. People keep saying all you are doing is masking the problem. However once I went to hydro assist (for offroad purposes and to get rid of death wobble), I have now been running it for a year and a half, and when I inspected my king pins and bearings, they looked the exact same as when I first did hydro assist and in great condition. So is it really masking, or fixing....in this case I fail to see the difference. If you don't have DW anymore then..... :D

Once again, just my experience with d60 DW. I am not saying I am 100% right, just trying to throw another perspective in here
Click to expand...

This is a valid point. If in fact you're not finding wear over time, then it probably doesn't matter.

However, if there's an issue with spring mounting or rod ends being bad, then the easiest/cheapest option is to fix that first. And to mask those issues introduces the possibility for a dangerous situation later on as parts wear and you don't notice.
 
I have a truck I redid the dana 60 front in and used stock reman parts for the king pins .

only upgrades is bronze bushings and crane spring eliminator kit .

it has no death wobble with old dry HUGE 44 tsl swampers :whistle:
 
colbystephens said:
However, if there's an issue with spring mounting or rod ends being bad, then the easiest/cheapest option is to fix that first. And to mask those issues introduces the possibility for a dangerous situation later on as parts wear and you don't notice.
Click to expand...

Very, very valid point. And always something good to check and replace if you find any issues.
 
I appreciate all of your knowledge. When you talk about kingpin adjustment, smoke comes out of my ear due to lack of knowledge of the d60 specific make up. This being my first big/beefy build, I'm on a learning curve with this axle. Being a Torpedoman in the navy, I like books that tell me how to fix these thing but I can't find much on it.

All this talk of alignment rattled my brain a bit and got my thinking, the insides of the TSLs are worn a bit more than center and outside. Also the links are missing the grease boots so they are wearing quicker but they are still tight.

Hydro assist is highly desired but a ways off. I kind of feel like masking the problem, in this case, would be fixing it. The end goal is to stop the tires from shaking the truck apart right?
 
Well, if you're wanting to do hydro, take a look at my how-to thread. I did it fairly inexpensively, including a full rebuild on my steering box. I don't recall exactly how much I spent, but it was less than $300. The link I posted has links to all the parts I used, so you can budget it out for yourself. Doing this modification, along with installing a locker in my 14BFF, are the two best mods I've done to the truck. In terms of bang-for-your-buck, this version of hydro assist can't be beat.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308273
 
Uneven tire wear isn't helping either. Are the rear tires better? Maybe rotate them to the front if they are while troubleshooting.
 
I had some serious issues with DW.. I replaced kingpin bushings and springs, lower kingpin bearings, wheel bearings, had an alignment done, weld in and bolt in steering braces, new steering box, Borgeson steering shaft and had a crapton of BBs in my tires for balance. It got a little better, but still existed. I had it someone turn my wheels for me and noticed one of my tie rod ends was bad. I replaced the entire tie rod and no more DW.

Moral of the story? Check the little parts first. Look at the drag link ends and tie rod ends to see if the have any play in them.
 
Seems also to be some confusion about what parts are what here. It sounds to me like Colby is using the WFO springless arm that has an adjuster nut on top, and that the OP is using ORD's eliminator kit which is completely different.

I haven't used either, but have battled DW quite a bit in the past. My observation is that lateral movement is a big contributor. I ran without DW for years, swapped softer Alcan springs up front and had massive DW instantly.

As I visualize it DW is the KP bushing unseating off of the King pin as a result of many different types of inputs. Once unseated all hell breaks loose. Spring-less like what Colby uses will definitely keep them seated, at the expense of having to adjust the nut periodically. ORD's kit also appears to keep the bushing seated without the periodic adjustment being needed.

Hydro seems to prevent the trigger event, or dull it down enough that it's no longer a trigger event for DW. Panhard bars can also help if really soft springs are a primary trigger.

I like the new bronze KP bushings that are available now too. Less deflection and better durability, and most likely a more accurate taper is all going to help a lot. I never liked the stock plastic KP bushings, it just seemed wrong to me. I guess the only positive with those is you knew the bushing would take all the wear, leaving the king pin itself undamaged usually.
 
to add to tRustyk5 info

yes the bronze bushings are much better . also the few I have installed fit in the knuckle bore much tighter also compared to the oem style nylon .

then the other option is crane offroad spring eliminator kit . fits inside stock spring arm design but fits super snug and works great .

I did the master reman with bronze bushings and crane kit and 44" swammpers with no death wobble.
 
I eliminated my death wobble by replacing both the drag link and tie rod ends, and make sure your steering box is firmly attached and you have a good rag joint
 
For what its worth, I rebuilt mine with the ORD kit (w/ spring) and instantly had DW. Did a little reading and found a threat that talked about the added weight of oversize wheels and tires compressing the spring more then stock tires would. The opinion of the thread was to add a spacer (flat washer) between the top of the spring and the cup. I add a .090 washer to each one and the DW is gone, for now... Not sure how this might help the OP but could be something to look at, and its cheap, like 4 bucks at home depot.
 
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