Reworking after first Blazer Bash

[COChris]

Ok, so I signed up for this and its time to use it. I finally made it to Blazer bash this year and had the time of my life! but needles to say it means that i now know what needs to be fixed.

Lets start with the basics, here is what I have:
79 blazer
454 with jet stage 2 Q-jet
SM465 np205
Dana 44 front/open with 4.56 gears and full Hydo steering 4" leaf springs
14 bolt rear with 4.56, Detroit locker, drums, stock springs with an at home approach to the shackle flip
39.5x13R15 Irok's

She performed well this year but i have this need to do better next year. I will say that Breaking my front drive shaft on the Trifecta run was probably one of the best things that could have happened to me, it forced me to make a driving change. Less skinny peddle and figure out the bump. The things that will change no matter what are the rear tire carrier and mounting the winch up front instead of in the receiver hitch. I bashed open the cover on my winch and I dont even know if it still works. I also do not like having so much weight hanging so far back, and the decreased departure angle.

Here are my thoughts and questions.

Front suspension: I wouldn't mind moving the front axle forward a little (no problem with steering, the hoses are long enough) and I am debating between running 56" springs with the stock mounts flipping sides and or doing a 52" setup like the B52 from diy. I plan on doing the front end first, the back end is in better shape and i want to do it before I have my new front drive shaft made. I want to stick to around 4" of lift, fenders are trimmed and more can be hacked, nicely, if needed.

Front End: I would like to find a Dana 60 and remove my weaker 44 but that may not be in the budget. I have come this far with an open 44 I can go a little bit further if needed. I have also been debating putting good shafts in the 44 and a selectable locker, but I am thinking that would be money wasted in the long run.

Rear Suspension: My home made shackle flip has seen better days and it is time to replace it. I have been going back and forth between the DIY kit and the ORD Kit. I like the stock spring but wouldn't mind more flex. I do not want to move the rear axle back much, as I am keeping the gas tank in the stock location, I have a heck of a beefy skid plate on it that is integrated with my rear bumper. I am looking for pros and cons of each kit and I want to stick around 4"of lift. I am not afraid to trim sheet metal.

Rear end: All i want to do to the rear end is disc breaks/parking break. I am not to worried about that it will just have to include Cadillac calipers and many companies make brackets. My only hickup will be to determine how to be st do the proportioning. either a valve or a new master cylinder.

Fuel Injection: I want to do it, but it has to be on the cheap. I have a multi port fuel injection setup off of a 98 3500 vortec and have been trying to graft it on but i keep getting held up by a crank trigger problem. I have an old school block with no trigger and the trigger is in the timeing chain cover, which they changed. the manifold should bolt up with the correct gaskets. Also when i run the math it may be cheaper to buy a throttle body kit and install it then to buy all of the parts and pieces to scab this one together. I know the computer works, i have wired it on my bench and had a buddy bring all of his fancy scan tools over and just a couple of sensors are bad but the computer communicates just fine. any suggestion?

Some of you may have seen me there, or even seen my wheels off the ground and then shattering my Front drive shaft. All good advice will be taken into consideration. Please note this build will take me a while because I work out of country in Haiti. Like I said above the front suspension is where i want to start.

Chris

 

[Stomis]

454 with 39 iroks and a dana 44 front?!

DANA 60 Front SUPER PRIORITY!!!!

 

[80' 427]

Honestly I really like my 4" lift springs on 0 rates moved 1.5 forward. Made a bigger difference than I thought it would make and I don't have the front spring hangers out front to hit on. I would dump the 44 but I don't even have a winch yet so what do I know. what year is your 454? I know the reluctor is behind the balancer and before the timing chain and the fact the gen 5s used the same cover as the gen iv. Can you run a crank trigger and adapt it with hp tuners?

 

[Stomis]

Honestly I really like my 4" lift springs on 0 rates moved 1.5 forward. Made a bigger difference than I thought it would make and I don't have the front spring hangers out front to hit on. I would dump the 44 but I don't even have a winch yet so what do I know.

Hehe Im an expo whore so my train of though is always

winch and armor>lockers>tires and trick suspension

 

[80' 427]

I am broke so my train goes- 1 ton-what ever I can do cheap/free.

 

[mr250twostroke]

Dont get caught up in the d60 front hype, not the end of the world to drive sanely with an open d44, 454 or not.... A locked 44? yeah, asking for trouble. Address the things you can with the money you have available, your plans sound good. Seems like your not confident in your rear flip, get a DIY or ord 1st. I'd rather break an axle than spit one out. Most important, enjoy your rig and keep it wheelable.

 

[80' 427]

Honestly I have seen alot of broken spider gears with a open, kinda the spin hit problem. I would think a locker would help, of course the last guy that did one broke the 44 the next time out.

 

[ssyork]

Just don't put any $into the 44. If you put 100$ into it, thats 100$ closer to a dana 60. Get the rear suspension dialed in with a new flip kit abd whatever else it needs. Then start looking for a 60. If you get the front dialed in with the 44,it will just be more work when you get the 60. Which you will if you keep wheeling hard. They aren't a hype, they are just stronger.

 

[80' 427]

I was there with 10bolts as 33s.

 

[blazinzuk]

Okay so my 2 cents here.

Front suspension. Look at custom springs. Not as expensive as you might think and in the long run cheaper. Ask most of us that wheel hard how often we replace our 52s/56s it will probably run in the one to two year range. I can typically make mine last a couple years but they are 3" lower when I am done with them and they typically end up multiarched. Plus you don't have the front hangers sticking out super far.

Also on the caddy calipers I have never used them but have heard from alot of folks and just not on this board they don't hold for crap. Maybe look at a brake off the 205 as an e brake. High Angle Driveline makes em.

I agree with Scott that the front 60 isn't alot of hype its a good front axle and strong much better suited to 40" tires than a 44, keep the 44 open though and keep wheeling till you find a 60. Springs don't matter too much when changing the axle.

One more thing and I don't know if you have this or not. A hand throttle with a 465 is something I consider an absolute must. Get one rigged up and its a super cheap mod. Makes it easier to stay light on the throttle.

 

[COChris]

So it seams like the 60ies have it over really digging into my front suspension, or just keep off the throttle and baby the 44. I'm not always good at babying the throttle, I know this about myself so i may need to move the dana 60 to the top of my to do list.

Then the debate goes to front suspension. and the options are

1. let it ride no change (Repair bent shackles and wheel it). my springs are relativly soft after years of beating and what i originally bought.
2. keep the same springs with a 1" zero rate add a leaf to move the axle forward, like i want. I would add the zero rate in the back as well to keep it level, and the new shackles.
3. Custom Springs/new shackles. Would this be able to move the axle forward.
4. B52 or 56" springs. I would like to hear more on the springs wearing out and how often they would need to be replaced. I wish i got out more but I typically get out 2-6 times a year with the way work is now.

As for a "Hand Throttle" that would have come in handy. I have never installed one, any suggestions on where to start or dose someone have pictures of one I can copy with a parts list. I am pretty handy but it would be good to have a place to start from.

 

[COChris]

As for the 454, it is an old school Hi output block, i dont know the year. it dose not have the crank ground for the reluctor ring. I would have to swap the crank or grind it to make it work, and then shorten the balance, or get a new one, and find a way to mount the pickup for the crank trigger in the timing cover. The problem with this is what I call KISS syndrome. (Keep It Simple Stupid) i find myself messing around and modifying parts to far from stock, which means if something happens its harder to fix on the trail and or i sacrifice reliability. As for external ones, i know MSD makes an aluminum one and FAST makes a thinner, yet claims to be stronger, metal one. the issue I have been trying to get past is if it is smart to hang the sensor and ring out there where it could take a rock or get jammed up with mud. Honestly i got the fuel injection setup for next to nothing, i would take a wash on it if I had to or sell it to help with the other parts and then reinvest in say Affordable Fuel Injections throttle body setup. Unless I can come up with a cheap method of supplying the crank trigger. The one upside to the setup that i have and a throttle body setup is that it uses mass airflow along with the O2 sensors and it should make adjustments to altitude quicker.

Any other suggestions on fuel injection kits may come in handy as well. Let me know what other people are running and if anyone has tried what i am trying to do here.

Honestly I really like my 4" lift springs on 0 rates moved 1.5 forward. Made a bigger difference than I thought it would make and I don't have the front spring hangers out front to hit on. I would dump the 44 but I don't even have a winch yet so what do I know. what year is your 454? I know the reluctor is behind the balancer and before the timing chain and the fact the gen 5s used the same cover as the gen iv. Can you run a crank trigger and adapt it with hp tuners?

 

[miniwally]

I read through this fast so I might have missed a few things but;

You have a choice in axle mounting locations with custom springs. A GOOD stock length custom spring will travel enough to make even crossover steering hit it's limitations.

Good shocks will help everything.

I have seen the 39" tire live with a ten bolt thing many times, however each of those guys now owns a D60. You can make it work, you will break shafts and u joints with a 44/10b. It's just a fact of life.

Next is learn to drive it, there is nothing on the trifecta that you should have had your front tires off the ground to break a driveshaft. If you don't have the driving skills you will even break a D60 by abusing it. You will also have reduced life out of springs, shocks, and other drivetrain components.

If this was me I would do the following;

Custom ORD springs in front with shackles and a rebuildable shock. Read that as a King 2.5" dia, 14" travel.

D60 even with slightly up graded shafts it will be way stronger than the 44.

Change your mounting stuff as you want, winch etc.

Then drive it, go do all the standard colorado scenic stuff, hit up penrose, buena vista etc. just use it, fix it and learn to drive.

If you can get injection on it, I see that as important as a D60. IMO.

 

[ssyork]

I would agree on the fuel injection as be just as important. Yates, blue toyota, went to propane and it helped out a bunch when climbing. He also used an old mtn bike cable and brake lever bolted to his shifter as a hand throttle. Very cheap and really effective. Norby went with the stock gm big block tbi set up from the boneyard and while losing a touch of hp, it works really well. Also with it being stock we share parts from my small block tbi if need be, also parts are readily available at parts stores. A custom chip helps a lot, as in custom made for your truck, not just an aftermarket chip.
I also use a line lock instead of a hand throttle. It's just a 1/4 turn hydraulic ball valve off ebay. I can slowly open it as I apply gas and the clutch comes out. Then it doubles as an e brake. Also works well for front digs if you ever plan on going that route with the t case.

 

[COChris]

I am feeling the love about learning to drive. I got that front driveshaft out of the junkyard, and as you can see from the pictures is is a little thing. I have been hammering on it for at least 5 years, it was bound to snap, and it did before any of my worn out U joints. did i goose it a bit and let the clutch out a bit fast on that rock...yes i did. i learned and was able to drive the rest of the trail in four wheel drive with a welded front drive shaft, the last 12 hours of our run. i wont make that mistake again.

As for fuel injection, i will probably bump that up on my list as well. I am leaning towards leaving my springs as is for now, replacing my shackles and bushing on the front springs and adding the zero rate all the way around. i will move the front axle forward the 1.5" and see what happens. I do not have to worry about steering, i run full hydro.

If I can find a decently priced Dana 60 I will start in on the rebuild as well, so I only have to have the front drive shaft made once.

Then i will dig into fuel injection. I'm leaning towards the throttle body injection for price and simplicity. know anyone that needs the vortec multi port of off a 98 454? Or anyone with a decent Dana 60?

Chris

Honestly I really like my 4" lift springs on 0 rates moved 1.5 forward. Made a bigger difference than I thought it would make and I don't have the front spring hangers out front to hit on. I would dump the 44 but I don't even have a winch yet so what do I know. what year is your 454? I know the reluctor is behind the balancer and before the timing chain and the fact the gen 5s used the same cover as the gen iv. Can you run a crank trigger and adapt it with hp tuners?

I read through this fast so I might have missed a few things but;

You have a choice in axle mounting locations with custom springs. A GOOD stock length custom spring will travel enough to make even crossover steering hit it's limitations.

Good shocks will help everything.

I have seen the 39" tire live with a ten bolt thing many times, however each of those guys now owns a D60. You can make it work, you will break shafts and u joints with a 44/10b. It's just a fact of life.

Next is learn to drive it, there is nothing on the trifecta that you should have had your front tires off the ground to break a driveshaft. If you don't have the driving skills you will even break a D60 by abusing it. You will also have reduced life out of springs, shocks, and other drivetrain components.

If this was me I would do the following;

Custom ORD springs in front with shackles and a rebuildable shock. Read that as a King 2.5" dia, 14" travel.

D60 even with slightly up graded shafts it will be way stronger than the 44.

Change your mounting stuff as you want, winch etc.

Then drive it, go do all the standard colorado scenic stuff, hit up penrose, buena vista etc. just use it, fix it and learn to drive.

If you can get injection on it, I see that as important as a D60. IMO.

 

[80' 427]

I know no one will like this but you could put a impco sniffer on your carb and dual fuel it with a fork lift tank till you get the FI done. All my buddies have done it since old dual fuel systems are cheap or free. It makes low speed at angle driving much better. Mine only runs on LPG and no longer has any gasoline stuff.

I will tell you my ideas are cheap. Most will tell you there are better ways but I can only afford so much. I have a 60 and lockers but I just have ORD HD front springs and stock rears with a rear flip. It works good for me. Oh and I have a 454 too (mine is a gen vi with gen iv heads). Hand throttles are awesome as well.

Oh and for a cheap 60 keep looking for K30s, I have 3 now.

 

[LT.]

So, all you broke was a front drive shaft. Then none of the modifications you listed will fix the root cause. Change your driving style a little and the front shaft may have lasted the whole trail. Edit- I see you already addressed this. Sorry.

A Dana 60 with tires that big is a must. Yes, you can limp a 44 along for quite a while and if you change your driving habits you maybe surprised at how long you can live with it. But, it is a ticking time bomb. Start off with the correct equipment and you will save money in the long run. You could drop a bunch of money into your Dana 44 and still not have the strength a stock 60 would give you.

Get a zero rate add a leaf and see if that is where you want your axles set first. This is where being cheap may pay off as you are able to experiment before you just hack everything off and experiment from there. This also is more than except able for the finished product also.

Changing springs out to the longer 52" or longer will net you some more travel. But, that is all they will help you out on. With the longer springs you will have more spring hanging out front than you want. Think approach angle here. Don't get me wrong, I like longer springs as they will also usually give you a smoother ride along with the longer travel.

Re work the winch mount is a must as well. If you are damaging the winch on the trifecta then it needs to be re worked. Maybe all you need is better protection on the front? Check out the Off Road Designs bumpers. A quality product, and minimal over hang.

Shocks would be somewhere on my list as well. A good set of shocks will change your mind about some of your modifications. Maybe the stock springs are just fine and you just need a better set of dampeners.

Fuel injection is nice but, I still drive on old carbs and if you get one to run right you may not need fuel injection. At least this is my experience.

I hope this helps you.

LT.

 

[blazinzuk]

As for a "Hand Throttle" that would have come in handy. I have never installed one, any suggestions on where to start or dose someone have pictures of one I can copy with a parts list. I am pretty handy but it would be good to have a place to start from.

Start with a bicycle seriously all the ones I have rigged up have just been using old bicycle parts, the brakes, shifters etc.

After you get it rigged up don't even use your foot on the gas learn to drive only with the hand throttle.

I have had both carbs and fuel injection and with a 465 I would put fuel injection way up top unless your carb runs awesome. I have had some quadrajets that ran pretty dang good at angles, but it can't compare to my injected motor.

The most important thing is get out and drive. I have broken enough I know just about when I am going to break.

Another thing you need to think about with a 52/56 swap is you will need a long travel driveshaft. Pretty sure you would need one with custom springs too though so add that in and don't get a new front shaft till you figure out what your going to do.

Like I said I wheel alot, even this year with a bent cage I have been out 9 times. Last year I was out over 20 times so I wheel alot. My springs usually last about a year and half. I wear them out so much when I find a screaming deal on a set of 56s I buy em. I have never paid more than 30 bucks for a set of springs. You can wheel on em longer but like I said they become multiarched and they lose lift. Last time I replaced my springs I was dang near at stock ride height.

 

[mr250twostroke]

For the record I was not saying a d60 isn't better or that you shouldn't get one, it's what my vehicles have. You said it may not be in the budget. I simply meant you don't need to do that 1st as you've proven. Not being confident in your "homemade" rear flip would seem like more of an affordable priority. My hype comment was more towards the 1st response to your questions. I agree putting money in your 44 would be a waste and you've gotten some great advice here.

 

[COChris]

As for the new winch mount, I have had the winch on a receiver hitch mount and it was hanging off the back. I like being able to use it in the back, mainly pulling out the people behind me, but i lack room to store it inside so i have left it on the back. i will rebuild my bumper and put it upfront before next year.

My Carb runs good, i think the hand break will make a drastic improvement on my driving but i will still move fuel injection up my list.