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Running rich

awesome link, thanks alot, i really appreciate your help. My last project was a 1990 xlt two door explorer. She met her demise and this whole TBI gm system is new to me.I was also very lucky that everything electrical in the exploder always worked. I will try and get a cable locally as to not have to wait for shipping and find one that will work on mac.
 
I have recently read about thepaper clip trick to check open and closed loop. It is staying in open loop as it is flashing fast even after driving for 15-20 mins. Any ideas what would keep it in open loop? If i read correctly it wont even read sensors in this stage. And could explain all my problems..
 
I have changed the ECT sensor and it has voltage to the plug
 
I apolligize for the newbie questions but ive read that the ect sensor dictates open and closed loop And ive read that the o2 sensor does?
 
If i push on the acceleator to about 1000 rpm it goes into closed loop so its only staying in open loop during idle no matter how far ive driven or how warm it is.. Any ideas. Sorry about all the posts but i keep finding new stuff out and dont wanna waste anyones time

It still burns very rich even during acceleration though. Atleast i know the ECT must be working now as it goes into closed loop.
 
Got to get up early tomorrow, so this will have to be brief.

Open loop, means its running off a canned program, with minimal feedback from the sensors.
It does this while warming up, or if a sensor is out of its proper range.

Closed loop, means that it is using the data from the sensors to control the engine.
As to testing with the paper clip for that, not sure.

There is a series of conditions that cause it to go into closed loop. The engine has to be up to temp, the oxygen sensor has to be outputting the correct voltage, and all the other sensors have to be in range.

Its a set of conditions, not one single thing that causes it to go into closed loop. If all those conditions are not met, it will stay open loop.

The canned, or preprogrammed setup will change according to some sensors. For instance, there is a setup for a cold engine. When the temp gets up, it will switch to a warm engine setup.
If you go wide open throttle, it has a preprogrammed setting for that.

These settings are best guess settings from the factory to give you a generally good engine.
But, the closed loop system fine tunes things according to conditions. But, like I say, everything has to be right.
If it does not have good readings from all sensors, it will avoid closed loop, because it has no way to know what is really going on.

This is where the computer cable comes in. You can see all the sensors in real time to see which one is out of range.

If the darn thing would throw a code, you could probably find the problem without the cable.
I am suspicious of the oxygen sensor with the cold air temps you have. It may not be getting hot enough to work.
 
They only had. 180 so i threw it in for now, but id like to have a 195 in there asap, Maybe even more for winter and then change it come summer time.
 
The 195 in there before didnt make any difference though as far as i know
 
I don't know, it seems that it should, if the computer is reading a 180 degree water temp, it still thinks the engine is too cold, I did this in an old Camaro for a bit better performance, it was supposedly a way to keep the computer in "cold mode" or open loop I guess, similar to a choke on a carb. It did burn more fuel doing this too.
 
i will be putting a 195 in there shortly. Is it safe to run even higher ones? Im sure 195 would be enough. It is staying in open loop no matter how hot it gets. I read on here somewhere that its not supposed to stay in open loop longer than a few minutes. And i didnt think they ECT sensor had to read the coolant at such high temps for it to want to go into closed loop.
 
i wish thing thing would throw a damn code
 
I have been working night shift on a wicked crane schedule, i have replaced the thermostat with a 195 and changed fuel filter. Still running rich. I have not yet found a cable and program to run on my mac yet. I read somewhere that maybe the guybefore me changed the fuel tank and pump may have put the return line on the vent which would cause it to run rich. The gas gauge also reads all sorts of funny. Has anyone had messups with the fuel lines or gas tank experienxe they could share. Im not really in a place right now to drop this tank in my communal parking lot i share. So if anyone could point me in the way or maybe checking this while its still up thatd be amazing.

Thanks
 
So i finally got a code out of it. another 44 (running lean). This would probably be a faulty o2 again because its running riiiich. I replaced it 300 km ago. I read on this site that the o2 sensor (single wire) is grounded by the metal in the manifold? Im a bit confused because in the wiring diagrams the slot beside the o2 sensor (D6) i think is the oxygen ground? I will probably have to buy another o2 sensor if this one is fouled from all the carbon to properly test now but does anyone know which ground is for the o2 sensor or if it grounded by the manifold?
 
If it's a one wire sensor it grounds to the pipe. Re-check all your engine grounds just because.....in a DC circuit, grounds are as important, if not more, than anything else in the circuit.
 
I have checked and cleaned all the ones ive found, my engine strap seems overdue for a replacing though. This o2 sensor is the only one ive had issues with so far. I will spray and clean the inlet for the o2 and buy another one in case this one is fouled. I have ground in the passenger firewall that has the ground strap and another 2 wires grounded to it. It seems like the previous owner did it due to the fact the paint is still behind it.. Does anyone have this one, its about tbi height and to the left of the engine ( if looking at it with the hood open ). I bought some sand paper and a new grounding bolt.

If i was to take the o2 out and use a tiger torch on it , would it output the right voltage? How could i ground it on a workbench?
 
What ever happened with this?

My truck is running rich and has a code 44 along with a code 22 and I've done everything but change the heated O2 sensor and TPS out.
 
bix said:
i will be putting a 195 in there shortly. Is it safe to run even higher ones? Im sure 195 would be enough. It is staying in open loop no matter how hot it gets. I read on here somewhere that its not supposed to stay in open loop longer than a few minutes. And i didnt think they ECT sensor had to read the coolant at such high temps for it to want to go into closed loop.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, the computer is calibrated for a 195 degree stat, so that is what it expects to see. Using other temperature settings may contribute to the confusion of the computer or other issues.
 
I had similar problems with rich at idle and put a 3 wire O2 sensor in and problem seems gone,runs better,no gas smell like before and can be done in hour or less. Got O2 from amazon and connector to work with 3 wire off ebay. Wish I did it when I first got the truck.
 
Hey guys i havent been getting emails about this thread so i apologize, i seemed to have it figured out. Im not entirely sure what it was but in the process of changing , distributor cap n rotor, plugs, wires and re checking the firing order, it seems to have been fixed. No more code 44 coming up intermittently like it was. And no more raw fuel smell. I do have a old blown glasspack and no CAT so there is still that certain smell but its normal. I am now in the process of hunting down a draw in the electrical system. The previous owners electrical nightmare has been causing me headaches. With the help from Trustyk5 (rene) i have figured out some more of the smaller issues i am having
 
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