Saying Good-bye to the 90 and Hello to the 72 Build. NEW:Hidden Exhaust

[Greg72]

Well....not to completely dominate your thread, but I did some more reading and research on this yesterday. I am happy to say that someone in their marketing department finally woke up and has made a lot of improvements to the way this stuff is offered.

If you already have a fuel pump, regulator and filter you can buy #70020 and get just the TBI setup and software

If you want it with the fuel delivery, you order #70026 which gives you a "return style" fuel delivery system

If you want it with a returnless fuel system you order #70028.

Then you can add some cool "options":


FuelOnDemand - Allows you to add PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to any electric fuel pump so that it only pumps at full output when needed. Cuts down on the noise and the heat so that everything last a lot longer. Brilliant! #70035

Electronic Spark Control - Allows you to create timing maps that are tied to the EFI system to save a ton of fuel during partial throttle (highway driving). You can buy their dizzy as part of the kit but it's not required if you already have an MSD dizzy with locked-out timing.

#70050 - Complete kit for Chevy with Dizzy
#70060 - Complete kit without Dizzy



DAMN YOU DENNIS!..... I knew exactly what I wanted for an EFI setup already and you had to go and post links to something cooler!!

ps. There are a few videos on YouTube showing the new software and people setting these systems up. Looks simple, and I really like the look of the new software.... A LOT!

 

[GRINCH]

I am really leaning towards this system.

But, DAMN you Greg!!! For making me think I need to add all bells and whistles.


Returnless system….
They even state a few times that the returnless system is not optimal.
Note that from a performance standpoint a return style system is preferable but the returnless setup eliminates the need to install a return line.

While most enthusiasts will prefer the returnless setup utilizing the
FuelOnDemand module, the ideal fuel system arrangement on high
horsepower, high fuel volume setups is to run a return line in conjunction
with the FuelOnDemand module.

Module for the returnless system is an additional $550. Not enough bang for the buck for me.

Spark Control…
Neat feature.. For gas mileage .. Ummm Cad 500, Trail Rig/Sand-Mud Drags. I don’t really see where it will really benefit me that much. From what I can tell it is built into the system all ready so I may be able to upgrade in the future. However, I would have to change out my current MTS/MSD CDI distributor for a 2 wire MSD plus the expense of buying a Discharge box. (MSD/Mallory) ( I do have a fond dislike for MSD boxes)

The new software looks awesome and very friendly.
Did you see this cool feature….
Remote Connection
This feature allows you to connect live via the internet to
technical support so that Technical Support can view what
you are viewing on your Stage III Dashboard at the same
time live.

I have two problems holding me up right now…
I still am concerned about the low Injector rate they use. I sent them an email last Friday and haven’t heard back from them.
If I decide for the Projection+Plus model 70060.. Where do I get it?? Nobody has it listed.

I guess it’s time to put a list of questions together and call them.

I did find a sweet 15% off deal at JC Whitney and they do have the 70020 kit out the door for $1334. Can’t beat that any where. Deal ends Feb 11th.

 

[Greg72]

Dennis,

The spark control might be useful for NOS if you ever decided to go that route. I think those bottle guys pulls some timing out of the engine when they're on the spray.... but you'd need to confirm that it has the ability to be "triggered" somehow to know when to apply the different timing maps.

Pretty sure that the Stage4 package would give you a non-MSD spark control capability, so you have options besides MSD if you desire.

Check out Summit Racing also. The 70020 doesn't include the fuel stuff (Basic Kit) so I'm not sure how great of a price JC Whitney is offering. I found the complete kit with fuel pump, filter, etc for $1649 (#70026).... Summit # PFS-70026

 

[GRINCH]

Dennis,


Check out Summit Racing also. The 70020 doesn't include the fuel stuff (Basic Kit) so I'm not sure how great of a price JC Whitney is offering. I found the complete kit with fuel pump, filter, etc for $1649 (#70026).... Summit # PFS-70026

Summit is $1495 plus shipping.. $200 difference... What else can I buy.

 

[Greg72]

Beer, Chinese Food.....and more 3M green tape.

 

[bp71k5]

Summit is $1495 plus shipping.. $200 difference... What else can I buy.

About 60 gallons of gasoline.

 

[GRINCH]

You can actually download Retroteks Software and get a feel for it. Of course there won't be any data in the cells since it can't find the ECM.

http://www.retrotekspeed.com/product_images/product-dashboard_file-52.zip

 

[GRINCH]

I talked with Retrotek Tech Support yesterday and they are not shipping the Spark Control system yet. For my purpose it wouldn't do me much good.

They did recommend that I upgrade my fuel pump if the flow is not at least 235LH.
I have a stock Delphi pump from a 1997 Chev 2500 in the tank already. I went to Delphi’s website to see what it flows at.
The specs listed were not in LH (Liters per HR) or PSI. Math time!!
They say their pump flows at 28 Grams Sec at 425kPa. If my math is right (Internet converters) it comes out to 61 PSI at 100 LH. Just a little short
Retrotek recommend an inline pump. Problem with an inline pump is it needs to be mounted below the fuel level in the tank and also the tank would need a another hole cut in the bottom for the fuel line. Inline pumps are not designed to pull fuel up from tanks.
My other option is to pull the tank and find either a Walbro or other High flowing pump to replace the Delphi.

 

[bp71k5]

I don't know if there's any difference in inline pumps, but I've been running a bosch for a while and it's been fine. It's mounted about 12" from the stock sender line and is technically above the tank. It primes quickly and starts right up every time. It's rated to run at over 60 psi, but I'm regulating it down to 16-17 psi.

 

[blazer7172]

I am using the Retrotek shifter in my project, and I was very impressed with the product. I have read up alot on fuel injection systems, and I will also be using the Retrotek fuel injection. Sounds like you may be getting it sooner than me, so it would be nice to hear what you think. The shifter sure works great!!

 

[GRINCH]

Since I am still waiting on my painter. I have been messing around with shock location and putting the motor together. I got the trans back from the builder as well.

Great trans shop to work with. He races stock cars and sponsors a few roundy round circle track cars.

The 4l80E build:
I went with a 1997 4l80E. This is the year GM upgraded the cooling system as well as other items. You can tell a later model by the location of the cooler lines. See my writeup here for info on adapting AN fittings to the later models. http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268103&highlight=adapter

Since this is going onto a Cad 500 motor I had to use an adapter plate to mount it to the motor. Cad Company made the plate. It’s a beefy 3/8” thick. Scott at AA Trans had the torque converter company build out the converter to compensate for the plate. He even took the time to make me new dowels for the motor that are 3/8” longer. He wasn’t to keen on the stock flywheel having 3 holes to mount the torque converter. He ordered the converter with 6 bolts and drilled out my flex plate for the other 3.

Here’s a list of goodies he put in the Trans.
Straight cut planets
Red Alto Clutches
Kolene Steels
Dash 2 shift kit
Torrington Bearings
Molded pistons
32 Element intermediate Sprag
Wide 2nd brake Band
Roller clutch
New pump and all new electronics

[FONT=&quot]He is even going to guarantee it for a year! Knowing full well its going behind a 450 Hp, 600 # TQ motor.

[/FONT]

 

[y5mgisi]

Is that some kind of case stiffner on there?

 

[GRINCH]

Crappy picture.. It's a heat shield for the exhaust.

 

[blazer7172]

What did it cost you to build up your 4L80E??

 

[GRINCH]

What did it cost you to build up your 4L80E??

With the Torque converter it was just under 3K. That also included a core because I didn't have one to start with.

 

[MNorby]

dangit, have a friend with a couple 4l80 cores layin around here in Wyoming.

 

[GRINCH]

dangit, have a friend with a couple 4l80 cores layin around here in Wyoming.

That's the way it always happens!!!! He charged $400 for the core.

 

[GRINCH]

Motor Specs

Motor is back from the Machine shop where they bored it 30 over for the pistons. The crank was 10 over on the mains and 10 on the rods.



They also balanced it.


The heads are from MTS and are running the MTS 1.7 Roller tip Ratio rockers. The stock Cad heads rockers system and valve springs won’t handle the RPMS nor the Cam. The heads are Ported/Polished, 76cc ported with 2.19 intake and 1.84 exhaust. The heads are assembled using their High Performance (HP) series Swirl Polished, Stainless Steel valves and MTS Spring Kit.
I bought a Flow Kooler water pump. FlowKooler high flow water pumps push twice the coolant through the system at lower speeds.
It’s been a challenge (For me anyway) to make the Alternator and PS pump mount up. I didn’t want to go stock.
I’m working on getting some custom brackets made for the alternator and power steering pump.
I will be running a CS144 Alt. It's a stock GM from a 95 Buick Roadmaster(As well as others). It puts out 140 amps.
The Powersteering pump is from Jones racing and it will have an external res.
I will post up some more pics once I get the brackets done

 

[Yukon Jack]

Nice! Ought to be a torque monster! Any guess on what it will put out?

 

[GRINCH]

Nice! Ought to be a torque monster! Any guess on what it will put out?

Marty over at MTS put the package together for me. Here is his estimate and the specs on the cam. I wanted a nice smooth (Close anyway) idle for wheeling.

Do they make a rev limiter for 2800 since it's all done make power anyway at 2800?

""Approx 450 HP and 550 TQ. Peak torque RPM abput 2800
Specs are with the cam but here are the basics
.315 lobe .535 valve lift 112 LSA Cam is ground 4* advance so intake centerline is 108 and exhaust is 116
Duration @ .050 is 220 in and 226 ex""