Saying Good-bye to the 90 and Hello to the 72 Build. NEW:Hidden Exhaust

[Greg72]

The upper mount looks like it might work. The lower mount seems to be placing the shock body pretty close to the upper leafspring plate.... make sure you don't get contact when the axle droops out on that side.

I think you're in the ballpark, just maybe a couple of adjustments of maybe 1/2" here and there once you have a chance to flex it and confirm.

 

[GRINCH]

WOW!!! It's been over two months since an update.

Well I screwed up royally on the body panel repair and for NOT bracing the door openings. I repeat!!! Listen when they say to brace the door openings before doing anything.

Secondly. I am sick of this build! Frustrated, mad you name it. It seems like I am always running into brick walls every time I turn around. Mr. Murphy please go home, I can screw things up all by myself.

OK enough of the pity party..

When I first took this thing apart. The passenger side was really messed up. The rocker and rocker box were really smashed in. (Hit a tree sideways, PO).
I left the top and doors on when I made the repair and the original door fit OK.

Move forward to the build 2 years later.
Stripped it down, removed doors and top. Didn't brace the door opening. (Always brace the openings, repeat ten times)

I built the cage and tied it into the floor. I made the cage removable and removed it when I sent it to paint. I also got rid of the original doors and made some blazer doors from truck doors. Sent the truck to paint. Did not bother to try to fit the doors before paint. Big mistake.

Started putting it together and the drivers side went OK.
The passenger side shrunk, moved, whatever. The door would not even fit into the opening. I took some measurements from the drivers side and the opening closed in by almost an inch.

I have been messing with shims (Blocks of alum) to get things spread open. I even stuck my porta power in the opening and was able to move the firewall forward. It didn't stay (of course) nothing to hold it.

I am considering tying the cage to the windshield frame. However, there has been discussion on how the windshield may break. I may also cut the cage to relieve the pressure it has pulling on the floor. ( I will post some pics later of the planned cut/splice)

I do have it so the gaps are decent but the truck looks very crooked.

In position 1 I have an extra 7/8" of an inch and in position 2 I have almost 2 inches.
You would think I could have 0 in one and 1 1/8" in 2 but it doesn't work that way.

Fire away with some ideas!!!

Greg suggested at this point it would be better to cut the door to fit. If I would have been smart enough to test fit the door before paint I would have done that. Now the door is painted and has green Al's liner on the inside and black liner on the outside bottom half. It would be a ton of work to redo the doors.

I really do not plan to run the top. Although I built the cage to fit under it. I bought a soft top.

OH!! Sorry for the long post.

 

[ryoken]

portapower.... block of wood... sledge hammer...

spread a little past where it needs to be... " relief smashes" to let it take "the set"... hard to explain...

 

[NorCal69]

portapower.... block of wood... sledge hammer...

spread a little past where it needs to be... " relief smashes" to let it take "the set"... hard to explain...

Just putting ideas out there. I'm guessing the door opening closed at the top.

Couldn't you release the cage from the floor, Cut a slice/ gap in the rocker box just under where it is welded to the front side of the firewall. Use the Porta power to open up the door opening, this should close the gap that you have made in the box. Install door, weld the box closed and re-install cage to floor.

This may hold the door opening for you after it relaxes back.

Maybe, maybe not


Good luck,
Mike

 

[tRustyK5]

That sucks, and I have been there with similar issues on my old black K5. From a logic standpoint you can safely assume the striker side of the door opening hasn't moved at all. All the deflection and movement is in the cowl/windshield/firewall area. I have to assume the 'pull' is at the rocker box area up front.

Can you porta power it out to the right dimensions on both sides without the cage installed? The cowl on my black K5 was somewhat easy to move, I ended up pushing it out to where the doors were OK and the hardtop fit as good as it was gonna and welded some tabs to the A pillar bars just below dash height.

Rene

 

[Greg72]

Rene makes a good point..... the adjustment is going to be on the hinge side of the door.

If there was a way to run a bar diagonally from the a-pillar plate on the floor up into the vertical part of the cowl (behind the dash) you could probably correct the dimension that was wacky by welding that tube solidly into that area.

Basically, force the cowl forward then wedge a tube and backing plates to triangulate and hold those forces so that it doesn't spring back.

Check some of VTBlazer's old photos of his blue 1st Gen. He put a horizontal bar in that area (basically near those fresh air holes in the kickpanels) to stiffen up his cowl and he claims that it made a huge difference. You'd be doing it for a slightly different reason, but the concept is the same.

 

[tp85]

do you have the front clip on? i've been told the front clip sort of functions as a big lever arm to flex the the firewall forwards/backwards depending on body mount shims at positions 1/2/rad support.

i just finished my passenger side repairs (cut out everything). i didn't brace the door because i couldn't see working around the braces constantly (for months ). just before any critical welds, i would pull the cowl forward with a winch to get the door opening to the original measurement. winch strapped between the upper door hinge and a vertical post in my garage. to maintain the lower door opening, i wedged a rigid pipe between the lower a-pillar and same garage post. this allowed me to fine tune the firewall angle. you may be able to use this type of setup to tweak your ride.

in the end (w/o front clip), i still needed a few shims to get the door closing silky smooth...but i think the front clip once installed will change the entire equation an require different shimming.
tom

 

[GRINCH]

Thanks everyone.

I think Rene's idea is along the lines of where I was thinking. Problem is it fixes one problem and causes another. I may need to use Mikes idea of cutting the rocker box. (If that will work) Follow along as try to explain.

As stated before. The drivers side came out nice. Minor shimming and the front fender is attached.


Drivers side. Needs some minor tweaking after passenger side is done



Here is the planned bracing.
I removed all the extra shims/blocks from the passenger side. (which messed with the drivers side a little bit. I then put the portapower against my seat braces to the corner point up in the cowl area. This moved the door opening forward. This portion of the fix is pretty easy and will ad strength to the firewall area. I'm going to do both sides. I plan on bending a plate to match the area and then weld the tubes to it and attach them to the cage. I will probably use either 1 3/4 HREW or 1 1/2.


This is the result I get. Don't worry about the body line on the latch side. That's another goof I need to fix. Easy one though.




This is with the portapower and even shims on the body mounts.

Looks all good right? Well sort of. See next post for the problem it caused. I'm like a dog chasing it's tail right now.

 

[GRINCH]

The gap in the fender line is really bad. I am able to close some of it up. I don't want to mess with the shims on the core support. It will just make the truck look crooked.


So far the only way I can get rid of the gap is to jack it up by the front corner of the rocker box. Not sure where to brace this one!



Will Mike's idea of cutting the rocker box end and re-welding it work?

 

[Greg72]

Dennis,

You own a copy of the Factory Assembly Manual don't you?

I know that there are dimensions in there for the door opening area. I think before you do something desperate (ie. cutting and hammering) you need to figure out exactly which dimension is wrong and by how much. As you are noticing already, even a small error translates into some grotesque errors further down the body so it's really important to isolate the dimension that's screwed up and fix it without making other dimensions worse in the process.

It's got to be even harder working with all that fresh paint, but you probably need to make peace with the idea that at least some of it may need to be removed to get the panels into their correct positions.

 

[GRINCH]

Dennis,

You own a copy of the Factory Assembly Manual don't you?

Greg,
UHMM.. Looking down at feet... That would be no.
I really should have got one years ago.


Had a friend come over tonight and we did some non-invasive looking around trying to see where the problem lies. I think we have it narrowed down to the front cab support. I won't know for sure until I peel down the front rocker box cover.
At this point I need to remember this is strictly a trail/racing rig and not a show truck or pavement queen.

I not afraid of messing up any paint as I have a quart or two left over and my friend will be more than happy to spray it up again.

I still plan on running the braces from the cage to the front of the firewall. I think these will add some well needed rigidness to the firewall/windshield area.

I will post some pics of what I find in the front of the rocker box area. It looks like there has been some work in there before I replaced the rocker panel

 

[y5mgisi]

Well all i can say is good job sticking with it as good as you have! Many of us i think might have thrown in the towel at this point.

 

[RootBreaker]

http://coloradok5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104973

where did you get the contura rockers with the stickers? i got regulars and thought about getting them with lights/winch, etc....

p.s. love the color!!!!!

 

[GRINCH]

where did you get the contura rockers with the stickers? i got regulars and thought about getting them with lights/winch, etc....

p.s. love the color!!!!!

http://otrattw.com/index.php

I like them because you can order them with the lights to function different ways. Good place to deal with and their prices are fair.

 

[GRINCH]

Well all i can say is good job sticking with it as good as you have! Many of us i think might have thrown in the towel at this point.

I have been tempted many times. I am so ready to go wheeling. Snow is coming and it's our best time to wheel.

 

[tRustyK5]

Looking at the drivers side I'd be tempted to use the dimensions and locations on that side as a Datum. Compare the passenger side dimensions to that and see where the small problems are. The problem with a small error on the hinge side of a door is the longer the door is the more the error gets amplified.

Looking at your pics It does appear that there is a dimensional error on the passenger side, rather than just welding distortion/pull from the repair...but I could be wrong. Even a slight torsional issue can make those kind of problems.

You mentioned you could eliminate or mitigate the bad hinge side gap by jacking under the body mount? I'd be sorely tempted to true up the body/frame assembly with a transit or even a 4 foot level, then see if the door and fender fit better. Some shim stock, maybe some lumber, and 4 jack stands should get it close enough to see if that's where some of the problem is/was.

I never considered anything like that with my old K5, and the carport where I did a lot of cutting, splicing, and hacking had a nice twist to it. No real surprise that I had many fitment nightmares with that. Even though the work I did on my '90 was a lot less drastic I levelled the truck front and rear before any welding.

Rene

 

[GRINCH]

I have the frame leveled to the ground and my slab is fairly level/straight. Measurements from the frame to the ground are even and a 4' level placed on the core support is level, same with the back frame of the truck. With even shims all around the truck is level and measurements are really close on a point on the fender openings front and rear. However the door opening is closed in to much and the gap in the front fender is bad. The drivers measurements are 3/4" different in the door opening area.

I took the front of the rocker box down and my suspicions were true. The front cab support coming across the box is rusted. However there is a piece of 1/8" that was welded across the back side from the inner rocker to the rocker box floor.

The problem I don't understand is I don't see anything moving when I jack up the truck from the rocker box. However it must flex the body enough to make the gap in the front fender close up. It does not change the horizontal line across the rocker. This tells me that there is no flex in the front corner of the hinge area. I can even place the jack on the hinge and jack it up with no movement anywhere.

Here is the way I see my options at this point.
1A. put the brace in the firewall area off my cage as planned to correct the door opening size issue.
1B. Shim positions 1 and 2 like before to correct the front fender gap area.
1C. live with a crooked truck

2. Rip it all apart. Rocker, floor, inner rocker, remove cage and possibly redo it since the dimension of the a pillar will be off.


I truly believe the scabbed on piece on the cab support and the cage are pulling the corner down permanently and I am flexing/twisting the body with the jack to close the gap.



Notice the bend in the rod in the rocker box!!








QUOTE from an old thread of Greg's: "Then again, if I start really cutting into this truck the 100% committed way, I may not be able to 'wheel with the CK5 boys for a LONG time!!!"

 

[sponsoredbydad]

I feel your pain brother. I had to cut my A-pillar area loose 3 times down at the bottom to get the doors to just go back in. OK I also did not brace it in the beginning.

 

[Greg72]

A couple of photos to help you along.....

There are probably dimensions for that second drawing buried in the Assembly Manual, but anyone who has a copy knows that it's not exactly "easy" to find things in that 600-page randomly shuffled page book!

 

[tp85]

is the 3/4" difference at the top or bottom of the door opening? hoping it is the top!