handloader90
Building!
And you said that there is a 4 barrel intake manifold that will bolt up to the Vortec headed 4.3?
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
SBC in a 1953 Willys
- Thread starter handloader90
- Start date
And you said that there is a 4 barrel intake manifold that will bolt up to the Vortec headed 4.3?
TreeFarm
Internet fabricator.
Correct. edelbrock make both vortec and non vortec manifolds. I have the edelbrock one. GM only had a carbed 4.3 in 85 so those manifolds only fit not vortec. the 4.3 is still used in marine applications, I believe you can find a vortec manifold from that.
The distributor is the hard part of the swap. Since it was only made in 85 finding and OEM one is next to impossible. The 4.3 is even fire unlike all the other v6s floating around so you cant use those distributors. it is physically the same dimensions as the SBC one but obviously only havs 6 posts up top and 6 triggers on the wheel inside, I have read of people modifying v8 ones. The only real option is aftermareket. MSD makes one, I think DUI makes one, and china make them. Mine is a Skip White performance ebay special. Cost me $50 and seems to work fine. I haven't driven it but started and ran it a few times.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-4-3-...ash=item569b754037:g:JcIAAOSwWjpZqIhA&vxp=mtr
handloader90
Building!
Awesome! Thanks again for all the info. I'll dig into 4.3 info tonight and tomorrow. I asked a shit ton of questions because I never really considered the 4.3 but if I can throw a 4 barrel intake on it and regular SBC parts on it then it may be the new contender.
Did you box your frame at all?
Did you box your frame at all?
handloader90
Building!
Disregard on the frame, just looked back at the pics you uploaded, looks like a whole new frame you made out of rectangular tube.
TreeFarm
Internet fabricator.
My frame is fully boxed, has a huge crossmember under most of the center tying the rails together/mounting trans/ traction bar/ and skid, and the front from about the grill forward has been cut off and remade. If you plan on any serious wheeling the frame is going to fall apart. I built mine as a practice run so when I make a frame out of 2x4 I know if I want to move anything. I figure i can get a couple years out of it before its fully toast. The old metal is a nightmare to work with. Super dirty and hard as hell to weld. The frame is multiple thin layers so you can never get a clean spot to weld and its super prone to cracking.
I've seen everything from small and big block chevy's ,to 6.2 diesels and many other weird re-powers of old jeeps..one I saw had a Buick 231 out of a Grand National with the 2 turbos in it at a cruise night--I wondered how "off-roadable" that combo was,with a manual tranny..
Seen a few with VW diesels and Toyota straight 4 cylinders in them too,and a few with AMC 360 ,390,and 401 V8's ,those were simply a terror to drive on the street or trail,sometimes too much power isn't good in a short wheelbase light vehicle..the one with the 401 could stand up on the tailgate if you punched the throttle too quick from a stand still..
I even saw one old military Jeep a guy used only as a "yard truck" to plow his driveway ,that had an old Hercules 4 banger out of a industrial stationary engine power plant,I read some Jeeps also had Continental engines factory back in the 40's or 50's..
Another old Jeep a friends dad had,a military WWII style,had a 2.5 four cylinder "Iron Duke" from a US Mail Jeep he parted out--that engine tossed a rod when he ran it low on oil,and he ended up using another from a '70's chevy Monza in it...
A cranberry bog I visited once had an old Jeep with a Deutz air cooled diesel in it...thought that was cool--no fears of overheating,or losing coolant ,if you were out in the desert,or fears of the block cracking if you had too little anti-freeze in it..
Seeing Jeep used the Buick 231's in many other models back in the 60's ,one of those may be an easier swap than most other engines..
Nowadays there are lots of other engines that could be adapted--5 cylinder Colorado truck engines,Volvo 5 cylinder in lines,and a bunch of others,if you are willing to have an ECM and wiring them all up to work in a different chassis..
Seen a few with VW diesels and Toyota straight 4 cylinders in them too,and a few with AMC 360 ,390,and 401 V8's ,those were simply a terror to drive on the street or trail,sometimes too much power isn't good in a short wheelbase light vehicle..the one with the 401 could stand up on the tailgate if you punched the throttle too quick from a stand still..
I even saw one old military Jeep a guy used only as a "yard truck" to plow his driveway ,that had an old Hercules 4 banger out of a industrial stationary engine power plant,I read some Jeeps also had Continental engines factory back in the 40's or 50's..
Another old Jeep a friends dad had,a military WWII style,had a 2.5 four cylinder "Iron Duke" from a US Mail Jeep he parted out--that engine tossed a rod when he ran it low on oil,and he ended up using another from a '70's chevy Monza in it...
A cranberry bog I visited once had an old Jeep with a Deutz air cooled diesel in it...thought that was cool--no fears of overheating,or losing coolant ,if you were out in the desert,or fears of the block cracking if you had too little anti-freeze in it..
Seeing Jeep used the Buick 231's in many other models back in the 60's ,one of those may be an easier swap than most other engines..
Nowadays there are lots of other engines that could be adapted--5 cylinder Colorado truck engines,Volvo 5 cylinder in lines,and a bunch of others,if you are willing to have an ECM and wiring them all up to work in a different chassis..
I've seen everything from small and big block chevy's ,to 6.2 diesels and many other weird re-powers of old jeeps..one I saw had a Buick 231 out of a Grand National with the 2 turbos in it at a cruise night--I wondered how "off-roadable" that combo was,with a manual tranny..
Seen a few with VW diesels and Toyota straight 4 cylinders in them too,and a few with AMC 360 ,390,and 401 V8's ,those were simply a terror to drive on the street or trail,sometimes too much power isn't good in a short wheelbase light vehicle..the one with the 401 could stand up on the tailgate if you punched the throttle too quick from a stand still..
I even saw one old military Jeep a guy used only as a "yard truck" to plow his driveway ,that had an old Hercules 4 banger out of a industrial stationary engine power plant,I read some Jeeps also had Continental engines factory back in the 40's or 50's..
Another old Jeep a friends dad had,a military WWII style,had a 2.5 four cylinder "Iron Duke" from a US Mail Jeep he parted out--that engine tossed a rod when he ran it low on oil,and he ended up using another from a '70's chevy Monza in it...
A cranberry bog I visited once had an old Jeep with a Deutz air cooled diesel in it...thought that was cool--no fears of overheating,or losing coolant ,if you were out in the desert,or fears of the block cracking if you had too little anti-freeze in it..
Seeing Jeep used the Buick 231's in many other models back in the 60's ,one of those may be an easier swap than most other engines..
Nowadays there are lots of other engines that could be adapted--5 cylinder Colorado truck engines,Volvo 5 cylinder in lines,and a bunch of others,if you are willing to have an ECM and wiring them all up to work in a different chassis..
Seen a few with VW diesels and Toyota straight 4 cylinders in them too,and a few with AMC 360 ,390,and 401 V8's ,those were simply a terror to drive on the street or trail,sometimes too much power isn't good in a short wheelbase light vehicle..the one with the 401 could stand up on the tailgate if you punched the throttle too quick from a stand still..
I even saw one old military Jeep a guy used only as a "yard truck" to plow his driveway ,that had an old Hercules 4 banger out of a industrial stationary engine power plant,I read some Jeeps also had Continental engines factory back in the 40's or 50's..
Another old Jeep a friends dad had,a military WWII style,had a 2.5 four cylinder "Iron Duke" from a US Mail Jeep he parted out--that engine tossed a rod when he ran it low on oil,and he ended up using another from a '70's chevy Monza in it...
A cranberry bog I visited once had an old Jeep with a Deutz air cooled diesel in it...thought that was cool--no fears of overheating,or losing coolant ,if you were out in the desert,or fears of the block cracking if you had too little anti-freeze in it..
Seeing Jeep used the Buick 231's in many other models back in the 60's ,one of those may be an easier swap than most other engines..
Nowadays there are lots of other engines that could be adapted--5 cylinder Colorado truck engines,Volvo 5 cylinder in lines,and a bunch of others,if you are willing to have an ECM and wiring them all up to work in a different chassis..
A small block Chevy will be too much power for the diffs. I remember "back in the day" when people were swapping small block 350's into anything with four wheels on it, and blowing out the stock trannys and diffs all the time.
Unless you want to basically just put the Jeep body on a newer drive train, you need to stay somewhat close to original horsepower. My '60 CJ5 had the F-head 90hp Hurricane engine in it. It never stressed the drive train at all. Not sure if yours has the Dana/Spicer model 18 in it or not, it should have.
That is one tough gear box. Way overkill for most any Jeep that had one. You would not be likely to break it with anything you can shoehorn under the hood.
Here is a nice write up about it. https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transfer-cases/model-18/
And the three speed tranny is fairly tough. But after that, things get a little more dicey. The drive shafts, front and rear ends, and axles are more than strong enough for a couple of hundred horses, but you can exceed their limit.
I grew up in the '60s, drove my CJ5 with dual rear wheels and a Konig PTO winch through places that only ATVs go now. I modded my Jeep, and helped with lots of others over the years. And the Buick V6 was THE upgrade that everyone did.
There is a reason that the old time Jeeps got the reputation for toughness, and unstoppability that they did between WW2 and about 1971.
They were Balanced and overbuilt for the power and stress levels they saw.
Plus the amount of ground pressure was low. Back in the day, when Chevy, Ford, and Dodge were building tough 4WD trucks with NP205s stock, and heavy duty everything, I regularly drove around them and then pulled them out when they were stuck to the doors in mud.
They were running "monster" 12.50/33 Gumbo Mudders, and I had stock sized Military tread tires on mine.
They could not figure out why their trucks got stuck and my Jeep just crawled around them. It was a simple matter of me being light for the amount of tire surface area.
If you want high horsepower tire spinning performance, go for it. But you would be happier starting off with a K5. Less work, and a lot more comfortable and safer.
Those small Jeeps were not designed for fast speed and horsepower. Too easy to tip over and just not built for it.
If you want to know why the old timers swear by the old Jeeps, drop a 90 hp Hurricane or better yet, the Buick in it and see what its like to drive. Get out in the back country, drop it in 2nd gear/low range, and it will go anywhere. You can drive between trees, cross streams, and maneuver places a full size truck or even a K5 just will not go.
Just, for the love of God, use the tapered roller bearing conversion kit to replace the needle bearing idler gear in the transfer case. Its been close to 40 years, and I still sometimes hear those needles screaming in my sleep.......
In 1973, they came out with a "super Jeep", which had a 304ci V8 option. Friend of mine had one, and brought it down to the swamp. That thing would fly. He drove circles around me on the roads. But I spent most of my time pulling him out of bogs. He tended to drive in, punch it, and spin it down.
He finally got tired of losing control and going into ditches and trees, and sold it to some guys at a camp a few miles over.
On the way home, on a graded sand road, they decided to have some fun. Wound up spinning out into the ditch, jamming the oil pan or something back and losing all the oil.
Danged if I didn't come driving along not even knowing they were anywhere around. I didn't even ask, just pulled up behind them and started hooking my winch cable up to the same place I had hooked it to so many times before.
When we realized they had dumped their oil, I tied a rope to the front end and towed them home. Never saw it again.
That is one tough gear box. Way overkill for most any Jeep that had one. You would not be likely to break it with anything you can shoehorn under the hood.
Here is a nice write up about it. https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transfer-cases/model-18/
And the three speed tranny is fairly tough. But after that, things get a little more dicey. The drive shafts, front and rear ends, and axles are more than strong enough for a couple of hundred horses, but you can exceed their limit.
I grew up in the '60s, drove my CJ5 with dual rear wheels and a Konig PTO winch through places that only ATVs go now. I modded my Jeep, and helped with lots of others over the years. And the Buick V6 was THE upgrade that everyone did.
There is a reason that the old time Jeeps got the reputation for toughness, and unstoppability that they did between WW2 and about 1971.
They were Balanced and overbuilt for the power and stress levels they saw.
Plus the amount of ground pressure was low. Back in the day, when Chevy, Ford, and Dodge were building tough 4WD trucks with NP205s stock, and heavy duty everything, I regularly drove around them and then pulled them out when they were stuck to the doors in mud.
They were running "monster" 12.50/33 Gumbo Mudders, and I had stock sized Military tread tires on mine.
They could not figure out why their trucks got stuck and my Jeep just crawled around them. It was a simple matter of me being light for the amount of tire surface area.
If you want high horsepower tire spinning performance, go for it. But you would be happier starting off with a K5. Less work, and a lot more comfortable and safer.
Those small Jeeps were not designed for fast speed and horsepower. Too easy to tip over and just not built for it.
If you want to know why the old timers swear by the old Jeeps, drop a 90 hp Hurricane or better yet, the Buick in it and see what its like to drive. Get out in the back country, drop it in 2nd gear/low range, and it will go anywhere. You can drive between trees, cross streams, and maneuver places a full size truck or even a K5 just will not go.
Just, for the love of God, use the tapered roller bearing conversion kit to replace the needle bearing idler gear in the transfer case. Its been close to 40 years, and I still sometimes hear those needles screaming in my sleep.......
In 1973, they came out with a "super Jeep", which had a 304ci V8 option. Friend of mine had one, and brought it down to the swamp. That thing would fly. He drove circles around me on the roads. But I spent most of my time pulling him out of bogs. He tended to drive in, punch it, and spin it down.
He finally got tired of losing control and going into ditches and trees, and sold it to some guys at a camp a few miles over.
On the way home, on a graded sand road, they decided to have some fun. Wound up spinning out into the ditch, jamming the oil pan or something back and losing all the oil.
Danged if I didn't come driving along not even knowing they were anywhere around. I didn't even ask, just pulled up behind them and started hooking my winch cable up to the same place I had hooked it to so many times before.
When we realized they had dumped their oil, I tied a rope to the front end and towed them home. Never saw it again.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2000
- Posts
- 9,123
- Reaction score
- 7,077
Years ago I traded my 400 small block with issues for a 350 that was built to a mechanic friend, He rebuilt the 400 and stuffed it into his flat fender. That thing was scary fast. He ice raced it, wheeled it and was also a daily driver. One day he pinned it, motor mount or something broke, engine shifted and held it at full throttle, he lost control and treed it. Jeep no more, but last I knew the motor still lives.
handloader90
Building!
I know its been a while since I've touched this thread but the Willys is still around. Went to the DMV this past week and submitted for my Colorado title, also shot some money and the application for Horseless Carriage plates off to the big DMV here in CO, $10.99 for 4 years worth of license plate on any vehicle 50 years or older.
The Willys still has the go devil in it with the itsy bitsy T90 trans and Dana 18 t-case.
I pulled all of the 70ish year old wiring out of it last year sometime I believe so I will be re-wiring, planning on going very simple on the wiring. I have a little parts store Bussman 6 fuse fuse block and plan on wiring the Starter, Headlights (Hi/Lo), Brake Lights, ACC. (Power on for everything/ Gauges) and a license plate light.
Spoke to the local authorities about seat belts and turn signals. They said if it wasn's originally equipped then there is no need to add them. I'll look into the Colorado road laws a little more on that.
The plow isn't attached to the Wilys anymore and the "Arctic Top" got swapped out for a fold-down windshield frame from a CJ2A with the split panel glass. I'm on the lookout for a windshield frame from a CJ3B (I believe) that has the larger single pane of glass. It just looks better overall.
The Willys still has the go devil in it with the itsy bitsy T90 trans and Dana 18 t-case.
I pulled all of the 70ish year old wiring out of it last year sometime I believe so I will be re-wiring, planning on going very simple on the wiring. I have a little parts store Bussman 6 fuse fuse block and plan on wiring the Starter, Headlights (Hi/Lo), Brake Lights, ACC. (Power on for everything/ Gauges) and a license plate light.
Spoke to the local authorities about seat belts and turn signals. They said if it wasn's originally equipped then there is no need to add them. I'll look into the Colorado road laws a little more on that.
The plow isn't attached to the Wilys anymore and the "Arctic Top" got swapped out for a fold-down windshield frame from a CJ2A with the split panel glass. I'm on the lookout for a windshield frame from a CJ3B (I believe) that has the larger single pane of glass. It just looks better overall.
handloader90
Building!
Planning on doing a frame out of rectangular tube at some point, 4.3 Vortec/Carbed with a SM465 mated to the Dana 18.
For now I'm gonna get it back running with what it currently has and drive it as is for the time being.
For now I'm gonna get it back running with what it currently has and drive it as is for the time being.
handloader90
Building!
More recent pics.
Windshield frame
Modern tubelss tires
4" LED tail lights
I need to go back, dismount the tires and run silicone inside of them and go to a different style valve stem that "sandwiches" into the wheel vs. thhe common pop-in style ones.
Windshield frame
Modern tubelss tires
4" LED tail lights
I need to go back, dismount the tires and run silicone inside of them and go to a different style valve stem that "sandwiches" into the wheel vs. thhe common pop-in style ones.
handloader90
Building!
Tires hit the springs, can't go full lock. Was planning on some 1" to 1.25" wheel spacers from a company called Spidertrax.
Been looking at used locking hubs on evilbay, need a set of those vs. the flanges.
The Willys has already been converted over to 12V. Generator replaced with a 12V alternator, starter is 12V now too. All done prior to me owning it. New dizzy/coil/plugs/wires.
I've got 12V gauges coming in here and there. Currently have Oil Press. and Water Temp. gauges since those are the most important to me. 12V Fuel Gauge is en route. Fuel gauge will be ordered when funds are available.
Radiator hoses look some kind of universal deals with the big spring running in them to prevent being collapsed, they have kinks in them on the tight bends so I will be replacing upper and lower rad hoses too.
Do I need to run some kind of 12v regulator prior to or after the fuse block that I'll be using or will the correct sized fuses be enough? Not really trying to burn anything to the ground...
Been looking at used locking hubs on evilbay, need a set of those vs. the flanges.
The Willys has already been converted over to 12V. Generator replaced with a 12V alternator, starter is 12V now too. All done prior to me owning it. New dizzy/coil/plugs/wires.
I've got 12V gauges coming in here and there. Currently have Oil Press. and Water Temp. gauges since those are the most important to me. 12V Fuel Gauge is en route. Fuel gauge will be ordered when funds are available.
Radiator hoses look some kind of universal deals with the big spring running in them to prevent being collapsed, they have kinks in them on the tight bends so I will be replacing upper and lower rad hoses too.
Do I need to run some kind of 12v regulator prior to or after the fuse block that I'll be using or will the correct sized fuses be enough? Not really trying to burn anything to the ground...
TreeFarm
Internet fabricator.
I have a set of OG Warn locking hubs that may work for your application.
Lower radiator hose from the factory would have been a 90* bent piece of metal pipe with a rubber coupler on each end. upper radiator hose is a straight shot
handloader90
Building!
I found some Dualmatic hubs somewhat local to me for $50. The style with the two bars that pull put so you can twist the hub.
handloader90
Building!
PM me the shipped price on the warns though.
TreeFarm
Internet fabricator.
Ill get you some pictures and info later. It wont be as cheap as those dualmatics though.
This is what the factory radiator hoses look like, there is a reproduction lower that is just 90* rubber so you dont need the metal tube if you dont want it. I have a willys MA head on this engine so the thermostat housing is a little different.
handloader90
Building!
If they're a reasonable price shipped I'd be interested.Ill get you some pictures and info later. It wont be as cheap as those dualmatics though.
This is what the factory radiator hoses look like, there is a reproduction lower that is just 90* rubber so you dont need the metal tube if you dont want it. I have a willys MA head on this engine so the thermostat housing is a little different.
This guy is 3 hours south of me... he's got some good fenders, good windshield frame and a set of wheels that I wanna get. I'll probably get those locking hubs off of him for the hell of it.
I saw the repro hoses in the Kaiser Willys catalog. I did see the lower rad hose with the bend in it and the kit that has the metal tube.
Gonna get on RFJP and see if he has em for cheaper.
