shackle angle and draglink angle

[Big10]

Got the D60 moved in place over the holidays. The front springs are unidentified, but according to ORD they are either softride of skyjacker because they have 1 1/8 eyes on both ends. probably were bought as 6" lift but they currently ride about 5-5.5 lift...they are well used and unknown age. I installed the ORD offset dodge bushing and shackle kit. The 10 bolt had 4 degree shims in place so i moved them over the D60. I re-tapered the dodge arm and modified the length of the factory draglink. What do you all think about the angles?

 

[nvrenuf]

The drag link is steep, I’d try to get it down to about 1” of slope. You’re definitely losing turning radius as it is.

The spring shackle angle looks pretty typical for an off the shelf lift spring. About the only thing to improve it would be to move the FUSH bracket forward some and use a longer shackle. I’d probably leave it alone unless you’re looking for tons of flex.

 

[obijuank5]

Put a ca50 drop pitman arm and that ought to be pretty close to optimal.
Secondly, measure your caster. By the pics , I’d bet you’d want to lose those shims.
Also a Dana 60 needs two shims on the passenger spring.

 

[muddybuddy]

somewhat related - do you have a 3rd shim on top of the leaf spring in the opposite direction on the passenger side? Hard to tell from the picture, but if not you definitely need to add it in otherwise you will be putting lots of additional stress on the studs/bolts on passenger side.

 

[skunked]

I agree, the drag link is too short. Make sure you add a second shim on the passenger side, I can’t tell by the pics posted.

 

[sweetk30]

Stephen from ORD did a nice write up on draglink angkes in the garage section . Worth the time to read it .

And as others said drop pitman arm first over any block on the knuce arm . The blocks suck in my opinion .

 

[scouthead]

I have "4-6 inch some kinda springs" on my K5 (and still rockin a 10 bolt) but it took a raised steering arm (not spacers. replacement arm thats taller -probably from 4wheel parts) AND a drop pitman arm to get that drag link horizontal at ride height with the rod ends close to the middle of their travel

 

[nvrenuf]

A dropped pitman arm and a 1" block would probably get the drag link pretty close. (if a 1" steering block is available)

 

[Big10]

Caster measured 2-3 degrees, and the pinion angle measured 5 so i am going to remove the 4 degree shims and see how my caster looks..should be around 6. the draglink is sitting at 20 degrees and its 15 inches long so by my calculations it is dropping about 5 inches. I am going to order the CA50 arm and see how we look then.

pics because people like pics....

 

[Blue85]

Stephen from ORD did a nice write up on draglink angkes in the garage section . Worth the time to read it .

drag link horizontal at ride height

Did you read the article? One key he mentions is to not have the drag link horizontal, but rather almost horizontal. Of course, you only have so many choices given the adjustments that are available.

 

[obijuank5]

Caster angle is the only one you should measure. Pinion angle is irrelevant. It is slightly different on a gm 60 but it will be fine with your dodge axle.

The ca50 is only a few inches dropped but coupled with the reverse reamed dodge arm it should be ideal in the slight upward slope to the front to match the spring.

 

[77snowwheeler]

Got the D60 moved in place over the holidays. The front springs are unidentified, but according to ORD they are either softride of skyjacker because they have 1 1/8 eyes on both ends. probably were bought as 6" lift but they currently ride about 5-5.5 lift...they are well used and unknown age. I installed the ORD offset dodge bushing and shackle kit. The 10 bolt had 4 degree shims in place so i moved them over the D60. I re-tapered the dodge arm and modified the length of the factory draglink. What do you all think about the angles? View attachment 435200View attachment 435201View attachment 435202View attachment 435203

Definitely agree the drag link. You can get a drop style pitman arm, that would definitely be a ton better.,

 

[scouthead]

Did you read the article? One key he mentions is to not have the drag link horizontal, but rather almost horizontal. Of course, you only have so many choices given the adjustments that are available.

yup. "horizontal" is subjective with this steering design... add a winch to the front of the truck, aaaaaand the drag link angle will change again. put a second battery under the hood... changes... load down the back, aaaaaaaaand changes... as soon as you drive away and the truck is leaning, or accelerating, or braking, i assume there are changes in the drag link angle.

Aside from losing steering range of motion, with my truck, the angles of the drag link were causing binding on the joints as the axle articulated (worse during droop, and even worse when the passenger side is stuffed, and the driver's side droops... if I recall) - I was much more worried about parts breakage and premature wear, than the exact angle of the drag link at static ride height with an unloaded truck. I probably would have settled for some reverse angle on that drag link if I could have had it, but, with only a few options for limited options for aftermarket steering arms and pitman arms... at some point it just needs to be "better", and not exceed the limits of the joints that are used??
the range of steering with the driver side tire dropped out is terrible with this design, and I'm not sure plus or minus 2-5 degrees of drag link angle at ride height is going to make any noticeable difference.

 

[sweetk30]

i can say first hand do NOT go true flat or the wrong way ....... i had a little over correction 1 time and steering was funky at true flat .

 

[obijuank5]

Let’s just say when the spring is flat is when you want the drag link flat. That is when they are at their longest. Matching those together is your best chance for controlling bump steer.

 

[scouthead]

Caster angle is the only one you should measure. Pinion angle is irrelevant. It is slightly different on a gm 60 but it will be fine with your dodge axle.

The ca50 is only a few inches dropped but coupled with the reverse reamed dodge arm it should be ideal in the slight upward slope to the front to match the spring

with 4-5 inches of lift, pinion angle became very relevant when my transfer case got clocked up flat. the front driveshaft u joint angles were basically maxed out at ride height. my knuckles had to get pounded halfway off, and caster adjusted, pounded back on rewelded -that, after the spring perches (including the casting on the passenger side) had been adjusted to keep the pinion pointed at the "correct" angles.

 

[scouthead]

Let’s just say when the spring is flat is when you want the drag link flat. That is when they are at their longest. Matching those together is your best chance for controlling bump steer.

I might pick the driver side tire up on my k5 with a forklift and take a look at the drag link when the spring flattens out... this would be interesting. Its been a long time since I played with it, and I was more interested in getting the angles on the rod ends into their design limits, than the theoretical best position for bump steer... always figured it would be a matter of time before it would need to be changed to some kind of crossover steering

 

[scouthead]

Let’s just say when the spring is flat is when you want the drag link flat. That is when they are at their longest. Matching those together is your best chance for controlling bump steer.

actually, on a lifted truck... with push/pull drag link, that statement might not be true??? yes, all lift springs may have different lengths, and different shackles attached to them... but most are going to have some decent arch to them. as the spring flattens, the driver side wheel may be traveling 3,4,5 inches upward, and taking the down side of the drag link with it? those drag links are not very long... in order for this to be true, wouldn't this mean a lifted truck would HAVE to have a pretty steep downward angle from the pitman arm to the steering arm???

I always thought this whole steering design was not great for anything with wheel travel. pretty cool how it transfers stress into the length of the frame rail, instead of across it... but it just has a super short drag link to be moving up and down at all. In my mind i always thought it would be best to have the drag link "flat" in the middle of your estimated / projected ride height? that way the bump steer is minimized for all the little bumps that don't cause much wheel travel... and well, when you hit a big dip or have the axle articulated... you just have to deal with it the best you can?

 

[scouthead]

Did you read the article? One key he mentions is to not have the drag link horizontal, but rather almost horizontal. Of course, you only have so many choices given the adjustments that are available.

actually went and looked for this right now... is it in a sticky? i searched but came up with too many pages of results to sift through right now. Any help finding it??

 

[Blue85]

The idea was to have the slight slope at "normal" ride height so as you hit bumps in the road, the spring flattens, moving the axle back, so you want the end of the draglink moving back at the same time. This is just for controlling normal driving bumpsteer. When you get to flexy springs, no sway bar, axle moved forward, etc., it's easy to run out of total travel angle in the DLEs no matter where you set it.

https://ck5.com/forums/threads/stoc...robably-should-not-use-what-you-think.329820/