shocks for leaf springs

[72k5mike]

I currently have 220lb/in springs on the front of my 72k5. I have bilstein 5150s in the heavier 255/70 valving. The shocks seem to be wayy to stiff for the truck. When I hit a bump on the road, even a small one, the whole truck drops in the hole. Would I be better with softer shock valving?

I was thinking of going f-o-a emulsion shocks so I can adjust them. Would the 2.0 be sufficient, or should I go for the 2.5? I do a little bit of slow wheeling, and some beach driving, but mostly street.

 

[xpndbl3]

remove the shocks and hit the same bump, then you'll know if it's the shocks or the springs being too light and that's what you're feeling.

 

[dyeager535]

If you are talking about road driving, do you need fancy shocks?

I'm in the same boat, my truck rides very harsh on the front, but it's A)quad shock (to be removed) and B) the stock three leafs bottom out. So no clue if the springs or the shocks are shot, or both, but I need to fix it.

I've been looking at shocks to compliment the truck, and would love to find some that improve/soften the ride, while hopefully keeping the axle away from the bumpstops. I was thinking along the lines of KYBs or Bilsteins simply because they seem to have good reputations on the car side, but have no idea which way to go, as most/all shocks seem to be sold along the lines of light or heavy duty (or high performance, etc) which gives you no clue as to how they actually ride.

I know this may not help in your particular case, but since I'm dealing with a similar issue, it's of benefit for me to see you get some resolution.

 

[xpndbl3]

if it's bottoming out maybe you need to add a leaf up front to stop that first, then think about shocks. Bump stops aren't very forgiving to hit constantly.

 

[NorCal_Chris]

A ton of recent threads on pirate about bad experiences with foa. My dad had a similar one. Call bilstein and ask what they recommend,

 

[dyeager535]

Agreed, springs may be the issue IF you are bottoming out, like I am. OP would have to figure that out on his.

My issue is, even if the bottoming out gets resolved, or is not an issue at all, how am I (or anyone) to know how one shock or the other is going to work and ride, barring someone else with the same setup running a particular shock and stating it works?

I suppose what I'm getting at is, there didn't seem to be an "standard" on how shock performance is measured when I was last looking. It seemed impossible to know if one shock would potentially offer a softer ride, or a firmer ride, etc., other than what an individual manufacturer claimed.

 

[xpndbl3]

shocks only modulate spring movement, they shouldn't affect the spring rate. So stiff or firm should really be in the springs not the shocks, they should just control the springs.

 

[dyeager535]

shocks only modulate spring movement, they shouldn't affect the spring rate. So stiff or firm should really be in the springs not the shocks, they should just control the springs.

I know it is said shocks shouldn't be used to compensate for improper spring rate, but with varying compression and rebound rates available, how can that not affect ride quality?

If you hit a bump at 5 MPH or 50MPH, does the shock compress at the same rate?

 

[imiceman44]

I know it is said shocks shouldn't be used to compensate for improper spring rate, but with varying compression and rebound rates available, how can that not affect ride quality?

If you hit a bump at 5 MPH or 50MPH, does the shock compress at the same rate?

As you noted here, shocks don't react the same at different speeds, because they have a rebound rate that is measured by speed, and if you are going slow the shock isn't going to affect the rebound as much as if you are going fast.
Now what I am missing is, I hear talk about bottoming out, then Ihear he wants a softer shock?
The reason he is bottoming out is the fact his shocks are too soft.
ride it without the shocks and see how different it is, you might need some stiffer shocks me thinks.

 

[ktmoutfront]

A pressurized shock will make for a stiffer ride upon compression and make rebound quicker, than a simple damper shock. A damper shock will only control the spring speed during movement.

Like said before, remove what you have drive it over some bumps. Stay off of the freeway.

Call ORD for some good info on this issue. Then buy their stuff. They have done it already.

My biggest recommendation to anybody who asks is, put some 2" stoke air bumps on first. Then do springs and shocks.

Just my 2 cents. And it's probably not worth that.

 

[dyeager535]

From what I understand, within reason (normal conditions?) if you have no shocks, you should still not bottom out. Your springs should have enough rate to keep the vehicle from pushing them into the bumpstops. Shocks should add, if any, a minimal amount to the spring rate.

The '73-87 trucks I've seen (granted a rather limited sampling) seem to routinely hit the bumpstops. Now that stock springs are at best 21 years old, probably not the smoking gun pointing to a design flaw, however without new springs, how can one know?

If the springs are in such a position that even new, good quality springs of the correct rate bottom out due to the minimal clearance to the bump stop, then I can see a firmly valved shock minimizing the bottoming out.

 

[howdiy]

FOA's are junk

edit: that being said I may still get some

 

[72k5mike]

fwiw, i am not even close to bottoming out or hitting bumpstops. I think i will take my shocks off for a quick ride and see how it rides. In theory, leaf springs shouldnt require as much dampening as a coil spring, due to the internal friction of the springs, correct?

 

[diesel4me]

Most shocks have relatively little resistance to being compressed,but extend with great resistance---so they dont really affect the ride when you HIT a pothole,they just keep the spring from rebounding violently...and the vehicle from bouncing repeatedly after a bump was hit...which helps keep the tires planted firmly on the road....I'd say the springs are at fault more than the shocks ,unless the shocks are defective,seizing up, or have a different rate than stock...some "racing" shocks have different ratios available that work in both directions,not just on the extention stroke...they ride like ca-ca on street use!..

 

[imiceman44]

Most shocks have relatively little resistance to being compressed,but extend with great resistance---so they dont really affect the ride when you HIT a pothole,they just keep the spring from rebounding violently...and the vehicle from bouncing repeatedly after a bump was hit...which helps keep the tires planted firmly on the road....I'd say the springs are at fault more than the shocks ,unless the shocks are defective,seizing up, or have a different rate than stock...some "racing" shocks have different ratios available that work in both directions,not just on the extention stroke...they ride like ca-ca on street use!..

well technically they are supposed to work on compression too, but not as much, so a quick bump, they should work to prevent the axle from shooting into the floor, but they do work harder at extension, that is true.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

FOA's are junk

edit: that being said I may still get some

Care to elaborate

 

[Blue85]

I currently have 220lb/in springs on the front of my 72k5. I have bilstein 5150s in the heavier 255/70 valving.

I have the same shocks and my K5 rides awesome. Small bumps are not even there. I can drive down the rumble stip and barely be annoyed. The key? Good springs. Although the Bilsteins are "stiffer" than a cheap shock, the reason they work so well is the large valve that opens up so well for jounce. This makes them seem "softer" when you hit a bump and "stiffer" in a corner. So I really don't think they are making your ride stiff. When I switched from twin-tubes to the Bilstiens (same springs) the ride softened up even though the shocks were physically much harder to compress by hand.

Now how do you know they are 220lb/in? I don't see you listing anywhere if the truck is stock height or not. Do you have the swaybar on? If so, take it off and see how it rides then. It DOES bind the springs on certain trucks, especially with aftermarket springs. Also, if anything is loose under the truck, the suspension can't do it's job as well.

 

[Blue85]

In theory, leaf springs shouldnt require as much dampening as a coil spring, due to the internal friction of the springs, correct?

If you have 12" lift springs, you probably don't need any shocks. There is no point in damping motion that doesn't exist

The 255/70 valving is "Medium/HD". There is also a "Light" (170/60) valving, but most full size owners think this is too soft without running two of them. I think there is a standard valving a little stiffer (270/75?), but i can't remember the numbers.

 

[72k5mike]

I should have stated, my springs are allpro toyota 5" lift springs. they give the 72 about 5" of lift. they are 5 leaf springs rated at 220 lb/in. I also have a sway bar, but i have disconnected and tried it that way, similar outcome. When I am driving, I feel like the wheel isnt drooping fast enough to fall into a hole

 

[imiceman44]

When I am driving, I feel like the wheel isnt drooping fast enough to fall into a hole

which is the role of the shock.
You are not supposed to hit the bottom of the pot hole, you are supposed to try and stay out of it for a smoother ride.
To understand how a suspension works with the shock, you have the curves from the road, and the shock brings the peaks of the curves closer to the middle line, if that is what you are feeling then its good.
Now if the shock is too short and is bottoming out on droop then that is different, it would be annoying and you'd need a longer shock not softer.
I had been pulling a home made trailer (pickup bed) with no shocks for a couple of years, and that thing was all over the place, swaying and bouncing.. well last week I put some shocks on it and a world of difference, I don;t feel it behind me any more except when I am taking off and when I am braking, but no more jerking my truck around everytime I take a curve or hit a sag in the road or hit a bump.