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Slowly but surely making progress with this damn transmission...

Zeus33rd

Zeus33rd

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It seems I've cured one symptom, but still have another. 1 down, 1 to go. :haha:

Stupid transmission. :flipoff7:

A new TCI pump solved the whining/grinding issue I had. Pretty much confirms that I didn't reassemble the old pump correctly before installing it. But I still have the 3rd gear slipping issue and shudder in reverse that I had before. My symptoms sound almost identical to this-

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/th400-slipping-3rd-gear-137580.html

Especially the part where he says "can pedal it and get it to grab 3rd for a second or two then starts slipping again." Mine does exactly that.

I can't remember which, but I know both 3rd and reverse use the same drum, so that narrows it down a bit. Forward drum I think..? Folkenheath....care to chime in? :D

Everything else works as it should. 1-2 shift is just right. No slipping or weirdness in 1st or 2nd. Kickdown/passing gear works perfectly.

This has certainly been a learning experience...I'm definitely learning a LOT about the turbo 400 transmission. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to pull the thing a 3rd time. :doah: I don't feel so pissed off about it this time though, I can still ride around in 1st and 2nd if I want, and having a clearly defined fault to chase after makes doing it again slightly easier to swallow.

I did get a 5 gallon can of Dexron VI for free ninety free. $6+ per quart at vatozone.
IMAG0001.jpg


Having friends in the right places is a great thing. :pimp:
 
By the time you get done hefting that tranny in and out of your truck, you should be able to rival any NASCAR pit crew on the installation time.



On the plus side, at least you're getting a good upper body workout. :smirk:
 
Been doing a little research, and I suspect you have a seal that did not seat correctly. There seems to be a way to check this before you pull the tranny.
You use air to move the clutches and see if there is any leaks.
I have not had much luck with finding out the exact procedure, but here are a couple of links that might help.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=967623

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350463

Also here is some youtube stuff. Not as helpful though.
The first one is about putting it back together, but not in detail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtQP8oD-anY&feature=related

The next two are just cute. Where the heck are these girls when I need something worked on?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jcViipHnCI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URawAL8mNyM

This discusses some valve body mods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRRHC39PQyc&feature=related

And if all else fails, this one is the ticket. Study it, and once you understand and learn it, you should have no more problems............
With anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAeN5knZMQ&feature=related
 
I've seen almost everyone of those links already...I'm a google machine these days. :haha: I appreciate the effort though. :thumb:

After a bit of google searching, I suspect it might be a seal as well...I remember having a hell of a time getting one of them to install correctly. About 10 failed attempts with 2 different shaped dental picks @ 1-10 minutes each, with the final, successful (or so I thought) attempt taking 20+ minutes. If that final attempt had failed at the 19 minute mark, I would have shoved one of those dental picks into my eyeball and run down the road screaming. :haha: The ATSG manual calls for a special tool to help with installing the lip seals. I've since then found a few links that mention using a piece of plastic cut from a 2 liter soda bottle to facilitate the installation.

At this point, I think I could get the trans out, complete whatever repairs needed, re-installed and ready for test drive in less than a day. :doah::haha:
 
I kinda figured you had seen most of those. It sounds like you really need to find out how to air check that pig.
Then you can verify that the seals are good before doing a reinstall.

There used to be a transmission shop up in Dothen Al. that was pretty good. It was run by just a good old boy, but he knew his transmissions.

He had it set up so that most all he did was reassembly. He had a crew that pulled the transmission, two others that cleaned the outside and disassembled it, another guy who cleaned the parts, and then it was passed to him.

I never got to see it, but a friend watched. Said the whole thing was on a home built conveyer.
When the tranny got to him, it was torn completely down and all the pieces were laid out in order.
He had boxes of new parts. He would rebuild it, using various air wrenches or hand wrenches.
He never had to change a socket. He had an air ratchet or handle for each socket he needed.

Unless it had a major defect, like a cracked housing, average turnaround time was often way less than a day.
With as many people as he had, you would not think he could make money, but he had most of the business in that whole part of Al. and he made it up with volume.

I don't know what his personal best was, but I heard of him rebuilding 5 or 6 transmissions in an average day.

I suspect that the proliferation of transmissions is what finally put him out of business, unless he just retired.

I doubt if most weeks he ever saw anything other than 350s,400s,C4s,C6s, and maybe a few dodges.
 
It wasn't that long ago that your list covered 90% of what was on the road...

Rene

Fordum said:
I doubt if most weeks he ever saw anything other than 350s,400s,C4s,C6s, and maybe a few dodges.
Click to expand...
 
Yesterday I called a transmission shop to talk to them about this thing...I'm gonna pull it and take it to them to fix. I'm getting tired of looking at it. Really don't want to pull and re-install it a third time not knowing if it's gonna work correctly and chance having to do it a 4th time. It's certainly been a learning experience, but I want to go play with it instead of laying underneath it sweating my ass off. I'll take them a transgo 400 1-2 reprogramming kit and maybe a 34 element sprag and torrington thrust bearings to install and ask if they'll do the dual feed mod for the direct clutch while they have it apart.
 
Just to add a bit more tech...

After reading a bit more, it seems a 34 element sprag will not work with my late model trans. I'd have to get an early direct drum for it to fit. So that's a no-go. Also, I found that the trans-go 400-1-2 kit has a separator plate that dual feeds the direct drum without internal mods.
 
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tRustyK5 said:
It wasn't that long ago that your list covered 90% of what was on the road...

Rene
Click to expand...


Yes--and they all lasted 100,000 + miles with no failures 99% of the time too!...I think ever since overdive was added to automatics ,there has not been a "good" tranny made ever since..sure,some of the older trannys had their "issues" ,but I say they were a lot better than than now...overdrive and a lower first gear IS nice,but why did they downsize the trannys so much and make them weak and failure prone??..

I think having a computer controlling them is the main reason they (bleep) up so often--that and the TV cable on 700r4's--they are too easily damaged or maladjusted and in a matter of minutes ,your tranny is toast...
stupid engineering == early failures and more $$$ for dealers and rebuilders..
 
KidJethro said:
Just to add a bit more tech...

After reading a bit more, it seems a 34 element sprag will not work with my late model trans. I'd have to get an early intermediate drum for it to fit. So that's a no-go. Also, I found that the trans-go 400-1-2 kit has a separator plate that dual feeds the direct drum without internal mods.
Click to expand...

Sorry, just saw this post. You are correct about the 34 element sprag, you need a smooth race direct drum. Also, since you have no third and reverse, the direct drum is most likely the cause, it is used in both 3rd and reverse. You probably have a folded or torn seal in the direct drum piston.

Since you are probably going to have to remove the direct drum anyway, might as well remove the inner seal as well for the fual feed mod. Because the transgo kit does dual feed with their funny sandwich plate, however, the feed cavity is small and it does not work as well as removing the 2 seals and plugging the case.

I am about to rebuild a 4L80E with a tranbrake starting this weekend. I am installing a 36 element super drum, so I will be selling the stock 34 element drum that comes in it, which happens to also fit a TH400 if you are interested.

You've come this far, I would at least take the direct drum apart and check the seals, or air check it at a minimum. If you find a problem then great, if not, then take it to the trans shop.
 
How much do ya want for it? Do you have the sprag too?

I'm not sure I want to even want to put a socket on the pump bolts. I'm getting sick and tired of f**kin with it. It's goin to a shop regardless.
 
PM sent about drum.

As far as the pump bolts, you could use a wrench instead, but it's a lot easier with a socket and extension. :waytogo:
 
folkenheath said:
PM sent about drum.

As far as the pump bolts, you could use a wrench instead, but it's a lot easier with a socket and extension. :waytogo:
Click to expand...

Replied to pm. Thx.

My comment about the pump bolts was more to say that my desire to wrench on the thing at ALL is zero. :haha:
 
Yeah I got that, I was just being sarcastic with the wrench comment trying to lighten your pain.

FYI, if you take it to a trans shop OUT of the truck, make sure you pick one that can dyno test the thing before you get it back, otherwise you could be pulling it out again anyway. Trans shops make mistakes too. Or ask them if they will warranty their work to the point where they have to remove/reinstall it if it doesn't work correctly the first time.
 
and stand there and watch them dyno it. if thay had done what thay said thay were going to do i would have not had a bad weekend.

local sh!T shop to me i found out the hard way thay didnt dyno it. found out on a sat afternoon when i went to install it. it was a c4 ford tranny and convortor wouldnt fit. took out the input shaft and it fit. checked the shaft and wouldnt fit convortor.

took it back monday and even had my mechanics work shirt on and the owner said i messed up the splines when i tryed to hammer on the convortor. :haha:

it took all i had to not nock him on his a$$ in the parking lot. and there was no oil in the pan when i pulled the stocker to install a b&m pan.

in my area there is NO GOOD TRANNY SHOPS. :sign3:
 
Meh...It's a money thing. And a time thing. And a million other things... :doah:

I've been driving it around with no real issues, as long as I keep it under 45-50mph and stay off the gas in reverse, it drives fine. The MP's get an attitude if you get anywhere above about 45mph on post, so that part is a non-issue. :haha: Trans still needs to come out and be fixed right though...Not looking forward to doing it again, so I've been procrastinating. :doah::haha:


I just bought the appropriate 4l80e direct drum and new 34 element sprag from folkenheath, so when the time comes that'll be a good upgrade.

I'm also being distracted by the gun shop in the PX...FN SCAR's, Springfield SOCOM 16's, M1A's, XDm 9's...I think I might have to wet my whistle a bit with a new .22 rifle. Can't afford any of the above stuff by any stretch of the imagination, so I've been looking at a Marlin 795. Basically a model 60, but magazine fed. $136 out the door. :whistle:
 
Roger that on the "fuggit, dang trans" loosely translated.:doah: and about the weepons... dude I want to build the most bad a$$ M4A2 it's stupid! and I can only afford the lower... bare.
 
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