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So lets have a serious Cummins vs 6.5 discussion

80' 427

80' 427

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So I have 2 6.2s a 2000 6.5 n/a from a p30 and a ranger/465 and an early nv4500. The 6.5 block is a 2000 and should be the start of the improved blocks. It also has the bigger 2831 injection pump. Only thing I am lacking is a 32 spline round faced transfercase.
I have nothing for a Cummins swap.
I would love a fire breathing sled puller but in reality I just need a decent mpg farm truck that will pull 10,000 at 45 mph or less for 5-10 miles.
The platform is a 82 k30 that has a 6.2 with a hx35. It made 210 hp with 480 ftlbs and pulls OK but has lots of blow by (the 18 psi isn't helping). I don't want to lift it because I will be working off/out of the back. Do I really need a 6bt? I know it is stronger and better but I feel the amount of money will exceed the benefits or possibly the value of the truck. What does a serious, no "good guy deal" 6bt swap cost in total?
 
80' 427 said:
So I have 2 6.2s a 2000 6.5 n/a from a p30 and a ranger/465 and an early nv4500. The 6.5 block is a 2000 and should be the start of the improved blocks. It also has the bigger 2831 injection pump. Only thing I am lacking is a 32 spline round faced transfercase.
I have nothing for a Cummins swap.
I would love a fire breathing sled puller but in reality I just need a decent mpg farm truck that will pull 10,000 at 45 mph or less for 5-10 miles.
The platform is a 82 k30 that has a 6.2 with a hx35. It made 210 hp with 480 ftlbs and pulls OK but has lots of blow by (the 18 psi isn't helping). I don't want to lift it because I will be working off/out of the back. Do I really need a 6bt? I know it is stronger and better but I feel the amount of money will exceed the benefits or possibly the value of the truck. What does a serious, no "good guy deal" 6bt swap cost in total?
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Sounds like a 6BT would be expensive overkill for that purpose. Definitely not a need.

And "better" is subjective. My opinion is that spending several thousand dollars on the Cummins is probably not better given your operating conditions (you're not drag racing or hauling loads over the Rockies). Especially since you already have several GM diesels lying around. Just run one of them and call it good. If you decide you want more power, add your turbine setup. Buying a 32-spline t-case is lots cheaper than buying all the parts to do a Cummins swap.

I'm not sure how much power you want to have for hauling stuff a few miles at 45MPH. If power is your goal, throw the turbine on the 6.5 and turn up the pump. If economy/mileage is your goal, throw a few psi on the 6.2 and call it good.
 
Farm towing I don't see the point in spending the money on a cummins. The 6.5 with a turbo should be more than sufficient.

I think the cheapest I have heard a Cummins swap done was still over a grand. He got the motor for 700. But has been changing and improving things since he swapped it in
 
For what you are planning to do the 6.5 will do the job just fine. The Cummins is a great engine but since it's mostly farm/short hauling it's way overkill.
As for bow cheap to do a Cummins swap, it really depends on how good you are at finding great deals on stuff. Me I suck at finding deals and usually like to rebuild things before install so that adds to the cost in my mind at least.
 
I plan on rebuilding or at least inspecting the 6.5 and the injection pump and injectors. I just want it to be trouble free and have decent power.
 
We farm a LOT of acres around here and when we are moving equipment from one ranch to the next with the pickups this is pretty much what it looks like.

If you can't build 100psi to move a disc, just forget it and stay home in your pajamas. :rotfl:

Okay, seriously you'll be just fine with a 6.2 or 6.5 to just tow around the farm. I use my Ford F450 with a wimpy 7.3PSD to move around my big implements because the truck is heavy. I'd be more concerned on using a heavy truck vs how much power. I'm more concerned about reliability and fuel usage around the farm. My Dodges come in handy towing out on the open road, where the Cummins really has a chance to shine.
 
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It is a dually and I thought about adding a portable welder and a torch.
 
80' 427 said:
It is a dually and I thought about adding a portable welder and a torch.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, if you have any questions or want to bounce off ideas for setting the truck up for field repair, I'm all ears. I have two trucks setup, each in a different fashion, for field repair/maintenance and equipment mobility.
 
I would like to add a PTO for a hydraulic pump or air compressor, I have one on a 465 but i am no sure if it will fit a 4500
 
You should have a rectangular plate bolted to the side of the 465, that is the PTO plate. You can get a Chelsea PTO that is cable operated, very standard type equipment. From there you can bolt a hydro pump to the Chelsea PTO, then drive whatever you want from the hydro pump. Both of my Fords have PTOs. One is for running my hydro crane on my service truck, my flatbed Ford has a Chelsea/parker pump on it but I don't have it set up for anything at the moment. I might remove the gas engine off the air compressor that is on the truck, install a hydro motor in place of it, install a hydro tank, and run the compressor off the PTO. I would also like to add a single spool hydro valve to both trucks with Pioneer fittings at the rear so that I can raise and lower implements. You might want to consider that if you move around implements and do install a wet kit on the truck.
 
Got the P30 pump rebuilt to 4911 specs now time to see how bad the 6.5 is. It is at least getting resealed with new head gaskets and studs. Knowing my luck it will get a full rebuild. Thinking I could run a compressor straight of the PTO.
 
Mine does but I think I will have to buy a specific PTO box for it. Looks like the 465 one I have is different.
 
80' 427 said:
Thinking I could run a compressor straight of the PTO.
Click to expand...

Mine does but I think I will have to buy a specific PTO box for it. Looks like the 465 one I have is different.
Click to expand...
Your 4500 should have a rectangular 6 bolt cover on it, that is the PTO plate. You're 465 should be the same. Chelsea is the most popular and common brand of PTO drive units. You remove that plate and bolt on an external pto drive unit in place of the plate. A non synchro'd gear in the pto drive unit will mesh in with a drive gear inside the trans, you push your foot in on the clutch and pull up on the pto cable mounted inside the truck. The cable pulls the gear over and "grinds" into the drive gear in the trans, let out on the clutch and the PTO goes.....The Chelsea PTO unit accepts a small splined shaft, like what is in most accessory drive units found in industrial engines like the Cummins, Cat, Detroit, etc.

You are going to have a tough time driving an actual compressor off of the PTO drive unit. For one, there is usually limited room between the frame and trans for something that large. Every rig I've seen, runs a hydraulic PUMP off the PTO drive unit with a complete wet kit consisting of a normally open pump and spool valve and tank. The item wanting to be driven (ie in your case a compressor) is driven by a hydraulic MOTOR. It's an extremely simple open loop hydraulic system and if you are farming then you likely have/should have experience with that type of system. What is nice about having a wet kit on board is that you can use a spool valve for your compressor hydro motor that has a "power beyond" port and install a second spool valve (or just go with a 2 spool valve if you are starting from scratch and install standard pioneer fittings. Now you can lift implements off of the ground with the service truck, and fill hydro cylinders back up with fluid when trying to get them mounted after a re kit.
 
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Thanks, I have had the normal experience with ptos on grain trucks but wasn't sure how to use them.outside of a hoist. I may have to build a set up like you suggest when I get closer.
 
If you need a PTO for a 4500, I have one. It was for a dump truck, guessing for the body and sander. I don't have any experience with either, but if i'm going with a diesel, it will be a cummins. Already have it, just need to build it. Even the 6.2/6.5 around here are tough to find.
 
I have 2 6.2s and a 2000 n/a 6.5. I would love a Cummins but think for what they get for a 12 valve and what the swap will cost I can have s decent 6.5 with my hx35 making about 250hp and over 500ftlbs and it will be just fine for my farm use and is a bolt in. My nv4500 is a Chevy tranny that won't fit a Cummins and I don't think a 4bt is a great replacement but I am sure I could be wrong.
 
At least in my area both are tough to find. Actually local yard has more Cummins than 6.2/6.5s. I bought the only 12 valve P-pump they had, needs work but for $500. Other motors a 24 valve in medium duty trucks. Some people think if it is for a Cummins it's automatically worth a small fortune. If you have an early 4500, then your right won't work...
 
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