something don't seem right....trans/doubler issue..

[wasted wages]

T-400 / 203 /205 ORD doubler....

Ever since I installed my doubler, I have noticed two things happening...

#1 when I put the trans in gear ( reverse - cold ) it seems like it takes a while to engage... I have to rev it up a bit like it's low on fluid ( level is fine ) to get it to start to move.... once it moves and warms up.... no problem... the trans has a deep pan and extended pick up also...


#2 when I stop and shift from drive into neutral then thru reverse into park,,, I get a ratcheting sound, like the parking pawl in the transmission is engaging as if the buggy was still moving.... it happens when I shift from reverse to park..... I have an art carr shifter so I have to hit all the gates on the way to park.... the ratcheting noise points to something still spinning inside the transmission even though the buggy is sitting still....

It didn't do this until I installed the doubler.....

 

[Fordum]

Don't know if this will help, but with my PTO winch, I often run it with the transfer case in neutral.
If I try to shift to park, it ratchets like you describe because there is no load on the output shaft and its still spinning.
I usually turn the engine off, shift the t-case into gear and then recrank it.

Unless you have a really long screw thread that has to tighten up before the gears engage in the T-case, I have no idea how the transmission output shaft can be spinning with it in gear and the truck not moving.

 

[nvrenuf]

Sounds like the shifter cable needs to be adjusted.

 

[muddermilitia]

Subscribing to see what people say. I have the exact same issues. But I swapped the transmission and both tcases at the same time. Winters performance gate shifter, NWF triple cable shifters. I would also like to add that I'm getting that gear chattering noise (from the 203 I think) even though I added that spacer to the detent spring. Before it would sometimes chatter and even pop into neutral. Now with the spacer it stays in gear but I hear the chatter, usually on deceleration from a higher speed

 

[nvrenuf]

Just to clarify my previous post, I was talking about the transmission shifter.

 

[wasted wages]

The only thing I can think of ( and this is reaching ) is that when the truggy is in drive there is a lot of potential energy (torque ) built up in the suspension and the drive shafts and the planataries of the cases and transmission due to the deep gear reduction....

when the shifter moves from drive to netural, the suspension unwinds and the torque in the drive line spins everything backwards inside the cases....

and as I shift past reverse, it doesn't stay in reverse long enough to slow the spinning components down inside the trans,,,,and then the parking pawl engages making the ratcheting noise.....

sound plausible ???

 

[miniwally]

Subscribing to see what people say. I have the exact same issues. But I swapped the transmission and both tcases at the same time. Winters performance gate shifter, NWF triple cable shifters. I would also like to add that I'm getting that gear chattering noise (from the 203 I think) even though I added that spacer to the detent spring. Before it would sometimes chatter and even pop into neutral. Now with the spacer it stays in gear but I hear the chatter, usually on deceleration from a higher speed

The gear chatter on de-cel sounds like a driveshaft balance issue. Had the same issue myself one time.

Sounds like the shifter cable needs to be adjusted.

Agree.

 

[wasted wages]

Sounds like the shifter cable needs to be adjusted.

I plan on double checking this..... I made a lot of changes installing the doubler... anything could have moved out of adjustment....

 

[muddermilitia]

The only thing I can think of ( and this is reaching ) is that when the truggy is in drive there is a lot of potential energy (torque ) built up in the suspension and the drive shafts and the planataries of the cases and transmission due to the deep gear reduction....

when the shifter moves from drive to netural, the suspension unwinds and the torque in the drive line spins everything backwards inside the cases....

and as I shift past reverse, it doesn't stay in reverse long enough to slow the spinning components down inside the trans,,,,and then the parking pawl engages making the ratcheting noise.....

sound plausible ???

Slightly off-topic. How much does your rear driveshaft move when you put the truck into gear? I swear my d-shaft spins a half turn

The gear chatter on de-cel sounds like a driveshaft balance issue. Had the same issue myself one time.

Thanks, both driveshafts are new, Front is from high angle driveline, rear is from a local shop. The front shaft does have tom woods super flex joints though....

 

[sweetk30]

if you have a detroit in the rear you get a lot of driveline play over other options.

 

[wasted wages]

I do have a detroit in the rear...... never really noticed how much rotation.... but again, that slack along with the torque loaded in the drive train could be like a spring unwinding and spinning the internals of the transmission when I shift out of drive,,,,, and then the parking pawl ratchets.....

I going to try stopping in neutral for a few seconds and see if that makes any difference before shifting to park.....

 

[miniwally]

Slightly off-topic. How much does your rear driveshaft move when you put the truck into gear? I swear my d-shaft spins a half turn

Thanks, both driveshafts are new, Front is from high angle driveline, rear is from a local shop. The front shaft does have tom woods super flex joints though....

Detroit makes massive amounts of free spin in the driveshaft

If I was you I would try shimming the axle a bit up and down like one or two degrees and see if that makes a difference. I did three new driveshafts and they all did the same thing. I solved the problem by selling the truck

 

[76zimmer]

I do have a detroit in the rear...... never really noticed how much rotation.... but again, that slack along with the torque loaded in the drive train could be like a spring unwinding and spinning the internals of the transmission when I shift out of drive,,,,, and then the parking pawl ratchets.....

I going to try stopping in neutral for a few seconds and see if that makes any difference before shifting to park.....

I have the same issue Frank, and the same equipment including shifter....I have done the described routine as well, and it doesn't make a difference for me....I haven't figured it out yet, I can unhook the cable from the shift pawl shaft and it doesn't feel like it can be adjusted anymore to engage Park more than it already does. My solution is to shut off the engine and then put it in Park. No noise.

 

[70jimmy]

I too have the same issues. I have found that if I put it in neutral then reverse and let the reverse lock up then put in park no noise, but just makes more sense to me to kill it in neutral and not worry about it.

Turbo 400/ORD 203/205 doubler, Art Car / Winters reverse rockcrawler pattern shifter, trans has reverse manual valve body with engine braking also.

 

[wasted wages]

very strange,,,,, the internals of the trans have to still be spinning to cause the noise....

guess it's one of the wonders of the universe......

 

[muddermilitia]

Did you look into this anymore?

 

[wasted wages]

no.... I'm kinda resolved that the shell gear that the parking pawl locks into must still be spinning inside the transmission for it to make that noise.....

As to why it started with the doubler install remains a mystery.....

It didn't do it with just the 205 attached.......

 

[wasted wages]

Hmmmmmm.............

I just thought about something........

Turbo 350's and 400's use an overrunning clutch or "sprag assembly".....

I bet that is what it is......the suspension wind-up and the slack in the Detroit as well as the multiplication of the gear reductions in the doubler all combine to "whip" the geartrain inside the T400 in the direction where the cluch or sprag over-runs when pulled out of gear and shifted to park....



It's kinda like the sprag gear on the rear of a 10 speed bike,,,,,you stop pedaling and the sprang overruns.....and you get that cllllliiiicccckkkking noise until you start pedaling again....

 

[70jimmy]

So it seems bad to me to just ignore the sound?

Is the best option just to shut the vehicle off in Neutral then slip the tranny into park??

Mine also did not make the noise with the 350 and the same 205 that is in it now. Noise only started with the doubler and at the same time I changed the 350 out for the 400.

I also changed from column shift to the Art Carr / Winters shifter and the 400 has the reverse manual valve body with engine braking But I doubt any of those have anything to do with it.

 

[wasted wages]

Just to be safe,,,, I'm sticking with the neutral shut down and then shift to park idea.....

over the long run it may cause an issue with the sprag unit in the trans if you shift to park and let it ratchet and slam to a stop position every time....