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spark wire location UPDATE POST 14

buffblazer

buffblazer

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on a standard HEI distributor does the number one plug wire connect right after the terminal hook ups for the power and tac, or is it two after?

got my motor assemebled and i checked the timing twice to make sure i didnt time it 180 out or go one tooth over, i am getting fuel and spark, but still no start. im wondering if i just need to shift all the wires. right now the number 1 wire is two prongs (or whatever you call them) away from where the terminal hook up is at.

i was thinking if i was every wire was moved one two far than even know im getting spark it still wouldnt start.

any ideas?
 
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Diagram in my haynes manual shows it to be on front and to right (driver's side first hole)

Also shows that the vacuum canister is located between #8 and #4 so one whole counterclockwise from #8
 
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Easy enough to find out where it needs to be. Pull the distributor cap and bring number 1 cylinder to TDC of the compression stroke and look to see where the rotor is pointing, that needs to be where the number one wire goes on the cap.
 
If he can't use the manual to find the right plug location, I have doubts that TDC is achievable. :D

Everyone starts somewhere, I"m not ripping the OP.
 
UPDATED still have a problem

ok so i still have a problem, i bring the motor to TDC on the compression stroke. the rotor is pointed at cylinder number 1, i re-install the cap and put the wires on in the correct order.

my problem...... is im getting fuel and spark but the motor isnt even trying to fire

symptoms.........no fire, motor cranks fine, the is fuel and air blowing out of the top of the carb

now whats my check list to go through?

1. TDC on compression (100% sure but can always do it again)
2. rotor in the right spot......it is
3. wires on right..................they are
4. getting spark...................at all wires
5. getting fuel......................yes i can see it spraying

questions about what else could be a problem

running an edlbrock 600 so no more 86 350 computer crap

fully rebuilt upper end, so i still havent adjusted my rockers, running hydro lifters and i left all of them loose enough to not bend a valve but not so loose the valves wont even open

anything that can point me in the right direction im completly lost.
 
tacoma said:
If he can't use the manual to find the right plug location, I have doubts that TDC is achievable. :D

Everyone starts somewhere, I"m not ripping the OP.
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i would take offense to that but i get your point, i have the wires in the right location but still wasent firing so thats why i questioned if the number one wire was for the first post after the terminal location or the second post because the rotor lines up just a hair right to the second post, after further reading into my manual (which didnt specify so i got another) i found it was the second post which i had it at in the first place but still had no fire, so i was just looking at all possibilitys trying to cover everything.
 
buffblazer said:
ok so i still have a problem, i bring the motor to TDC on the compression stroke. the rotor is pointed at cylinder number 1, i re-install the cap and put the wires on in the correct order.

my problem...... is im getting fuel and spark but the motor isnt even trying to fire

symptoms.........no fire, motor cranks fine, the is fuel and air blowing out of the top of the carb

now whats my check list to go through?

1. TDC on compression (100% sure but can always do it again)
2. rotor in the right spot......it is
3. wires on right..................they are
4. getting spark...................at all wires
5. getting fuel......................yes i can see it spraying

questions about what else could be a problem

running an edlbrock 600 so no more 86 350 computer crap

fully rebuilt upper end, so i still havent adjusted my rockers, running hydro lifters and i left all of them loose enough to not bend a valve but not so loose the valves wont even open

anything that can point me in the right direction im completly lost.
Click to expand...

There are three things required for an engine to run, Fuel, Spark, and Compression. Now that you've said you have a rebuilt top end my guess is you have a bunch of valves too tight and no compression in at least several cylinders which won't allow the engine to start.

You need to properly adjust the valves before you can start the engine, having them too loose is just as bad as having them too tight.
 
4X4HIGH said:
There are three things required for an engine to run, Fuel, Spark, and Compression. Now that you've said you have a rebuilt top end my guess is you have a bunch of valves too tight and no compression in at least several cylinders which won't allow the engine to start.

You need to properly adjust the valves before you can start the engine, having them too loose is just as bad as having them too tight.
Click to expand...

ok i will adjust them i had a mechanic at our local shop that does all the farm equipment for the dairy and does so weekend building of old trucks tell me that having the valves too tight will do exactly what your saying but he told me having them loose wont hurt because it will run like crap when it starts but it would at least fire.

so im gonna take your word for it and adjust them tomorrow.

how about everything else? anything else im forgeting to do or have i covered my tracks pretty well other than adjusting the rockers?
 
If its blowing air out the carb then its either not on the wrong stroke or the rockers are too tight not letting the valves close.
 
im really doubting the rockers are to tight, i can wiggle all of them by hand and they are loose, the nuts on all of them are about 3 threads from the top.
 
i didnt install the cam on this motor, could it be possible the cam isnt lined up right?

i doubt it because when i bring the motor to top dead center the intake valve and exhaust valve on number 1 are both closed on the compression stroke so i figure that it has to be right since its opening and closing when its supposed to.

just a thought im throwing out there.
 
If you were using the "finger on the spark plug hole" method to find TDC, then you know that at least one cylinder is building compression.

If you can crank the engine you can do a compression test.
 
ok so i did a compression test and got very low numbers 80 was my highest all the way down to 20.

talk to 70jimmy who i bought the motor from and he said the cam gear was not aligned with the crank gear

my fault because i should have checked when i was putting the motor together :doah:

now im sure thats my problem but im wondering if the cam gear is not lined up with the crank gear, how come, i can still time the motor right? i mean shouldnt it be off if the gears are off?

at top dead center on the compression stroke, both my number 1 exhaust and intake valves are fully relaxed and my rotor is pointing at number one cylinder.
 
When the number one cylinder is at TDC compression stroke the timing marks on the crank and cam gear are not supposed to be dot to dot. The crank gear should be at 12 O-clock position and the cam gear should be at the 12 O-clock postion. When installing a timing set you line the dots up with one another, crank at 12 O-clock and cam at 6 O-clock but that is the number six TDC compression stroke. It just makes it easier to line the dots up if they are close to each other.

Back all the valves off until the nuts are even with the top of the rocker studs then do a compression test again. I'f your valves were too tight causing your lack of good compression it should be much better now. If the timing gears are off you've possibly already done damage so that's not going to matter at this point but at least you'll have an idea if it's just tight valves causing your problem.
 
what damage would i have caused? bent valves?

i will check compression again and see what i get

now i do gotta say i may have screwed up with the rocker adjustment. when reading my manual it said set at TDC #1 cylinder compression stroke and tighten the approprate valves. well everytime i did that that when i would turn the motor over by hand to set the other 8 it would always get to a point where i could no longer easly turn it by hand so i always backed them off so that i could turn it figuring that if they were to tight for me to turn by hand then it could bend a valve when i start it. so i figured i would make the proper adjustment when i started it.

so then i got to thinking if the bottom end is tight then it would be hard to turn the motor over by hand because the compression would be high.

so im thinking im either not making compression because
1. i never fully tighten the rockers down tight because i was miss guided on how easy the motor would turn over by hand
2. the timing marks are off.

so with the nuts backed off what kind of compression readings should i expect and what will i learn from them either if they are high or low?
 
With the nuts backed off like i said you should get a good reading of somewhere between 150-200 depending on the compression ratio of the engine and the valve overlap of the cam.
 
now i talked to 70jimmy and he said that the cam was off, the mark on the cam gear does not line up with the crank gear mark.

so since i never had the nuts fully tightened do you think i damaged anything?

im thinking maybe just go ahead pull the timing cover and see how far off i am, it bothers me that its off but all my other marks line up. are they supposed to do that?

i guess i need a little more schooling on how the timing marks could be off, but at TDC the number 1 valves are exactly how they are supposed to be.
 
At this point you need to pull the cover and verify for yourself that the marks are either lined up or not. Just remember like i said earlier, when the engine is on TDC of the compression stroke the marks should not be pointing at each other. If you were to bring the number 6 cylinder up to TDC then pull the cover they should be lined up correctly.
 
buffblazer said:
how the timing marks could be off, but at TDC the number 1 valves are exactly how they are supposed to be.
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Both valves are closed during the compression and power strokes, which is roughly half of the cam cycle. Then each valve is open for roughly 1/4 of the remaining cycle. So it seems to me your cam could be off by 90 degrees and by checking only at TDC it would seem OK.
 
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