Steer me in the right direction

[HawK5]

Hi All,
Been doing lots of reading and figured it was time to just ask the question I need answered. The '80 jimmy is great, but I've been doing some legit PNW wheeling, a little rock crawling, but mostly steep tight trails through close trees, lose dirt/mud, with root systems to traverse amongst these trails, high articulation, etc. Through all this I have experienced the steering lock out that is well documented on the push/pull system, the inability to steer in high leverage (external forces), low engine rpm, and not moving, with a whining pump. Reving up the engine seems to help build pump pressure and get the wheels pointed where I need them, and there is a fair bit of looseness in the system overall.

I've diagnosed with several helpers all taking turns inspecting and turning the steering wheel and watching the components, the only obvious culprit is the drag link (pitman arm to knuckle.) The rag joint looks to be newer than OE and doesn't show any obvious wear or wiggling, so the XJ shaft, while a relatively inexpensive upgrade, doesn't seem to be necessary at this time. The frame is braced/welded at the box, and I have seen no movement in any of the cross members. I recently upgraded the front budget lift leaf springs with ORDs greaseable poly bushings and zerk fitted bolts, along with a set of custom 4" rear leaf springs and matching bushings. The front-end was making a popping sound when steering at low speeds, but I found a dry upper driver side ball joint that once greased stopped the popping sound, was worried this may have led to premature ball joint wear, but they seem tight.

It has become abundantly clear the stock steering is next on the list to address. I'm trying to take a one step at a time approach for replacements and upgrades so here is what I am mapping out. Please steer me in the right direction if I am not connecting the dots or missing something:

1. Modify the pump by drilling the outlet to 5/32 and tightening the relief valve to boost the pressure. Hoping this helps steer the 35's (someday to be 38s) at low engine rpm while stopped and pushing against trail-walls, etc.
2. Upgrade the box to a redhead 2wd, 4T 18:1, ported for hydro assist to be added down the line. This to be done in conjunction with ORD crossover conversion. Hoping this will eliminate the lock out and constant wearing out of drag link.
3. Then the high-steer kit, and eventually the hydro ram assist. I assume I should wait on the ram assist until I get the high steer done? Hoping the high steer keeps the tie rod clear of rocks, and hydro assist will help push the 38's and tighten everything up.

Is there an upgraded/heavy duty drag link that will get me through until I can squirrel away enough money for the box and crossover? I am on my second drag link in less than 500-1000 miles (albeit a fair bit of hard trail miles). Hoping to tame down the sloppiness, it has about 1/2 turn in the steering wheel (aired down on dirt/gravel) before the tires do what I am suggesting with the steering wheel. Once aired up on pavement, it's closer to a 1/4 turn.


Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can offer.

 

[swettysblazer]

Hi All,
Been doing lots of reading and figured it was time to just ask the question I need answered. The '80 jimmy is great, but I've been doing some legit PNW wheeling, a little rock crawling, but mostly steep tight trails through close trees, lose dirt/mud, with root systems to traverse amongst these trails, high articulation, etc. Through all this I have experienced the steering lock out that is well documented on the push/pull system, the inability to steer in high leverage (external forces), low engine rpm, and not moving, with a whining pump. Reving up the engine seems to help build pump pressure and get the wheels pointed where I need them, and there is a fair bit of looseness in the system overall.

I've diagnosed with several helpers all taking turns inspecting and turning the steering wheel and watching the components, the only obvious culprit is the drag link (pitman arm to knuckle.) The rag joint looks to be newer than OE and doesn't show any obvious wear or wiggling, so the XJ shaft, while a relatively inexpensive upgrade, doesn't seem to be necessary at this time. The frame is braced/welded at the box, and I have seen no movement in any of the cross members. I recently upgraded the front budget lift leaf springs with ORDs greaseable poly bushings and zerk fitted bolts, along with a set of custom 4" rear leaf springs and matching bushings. The front-end was making a popping sound when steering at low speeds, but I found a dry upper driver side ball joint that once greased stopped the popping sound, was worried this may have led to premature ball joint wear, but they seem tight.

It has become abundantly clear the stock steering is next on the list to address. I'm trying to take a one step at a time approach for replacements and upgrades so here is what I am mapping out. Please steer me in the right direction if I am not connecting the dots or missing something:

1. Modify the pump by drilling the outlet to 5/32 and tightening the relief valve to boost the pressure. Hoping this helps steer the 35's (someday to be 38s) at low engine rpm while stopped and pushing against trail-walls, etc.
2. Upgrade the box to a redhead 2wd, 4T 18:1, ported for hydro assist to be added down the line. This to be done in conjunction with ORD crossover conversion. Hoping this will eliminate the lock out and constant wearing out of drag link.
3. Then the high-steer kit, and eventually the hydro ram assist. I assume I should wait on the ram assist until I get the high steer done? Hoping the high steer keeps the tie rod clear of rocks, and hydro assist will help push the 38's and tighten everything up.

Is there an upgraded/heavy duty drag link that will get me through until I can squirrel away enough money for the box and crossover? I am on my second drag link in less than 500-1000 miles (albeit a fair bit of hard trail miles). Hoping to tame down the sloppiness, it has about 1/2 turn in the steering wheel (aired down on dirt/gravel) before the tires do what I am suggesting with the steering wheel. Once aired up on pavement, it's closer to a 1/4 turn.


Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can offer.

Hydro assist and crossover was the best thing I did to my truck other than putting the suspension seats in it. I did a full PSC System and crossover at the same time. I only have 4 inches of lift so I did not go the high steer route. If anything, I would start with the crossover setup first and then if you feel the need to go to hydro assist, go that route. My truck will turn aired down 39's on pavement with no issues whatsoever at idle.

 

[nvrenuf]

Do the XJ steering shaft now before anything else, this did more to tighten up my steering than the frame braces and crossover with high steer.

No matter how good the coupler is it’s still a soft connection that can flex, the XJ shaft will eliminate that.

Personally, I’d wait before drilling the pump orifice. Wait and see how the steering feels after the upgrades. This isn’t a bad upgrade but lots of folks report there’s a very fine line between getting the pressure improvement and ruining the orifice resulting in no pressure at all.

 

[BoondocK5]

When you finally want to go all the way.
Lift height = irrelevant
Tire size = irrelevant
Amount of twisted up trail = irrelevant.

 

[HawK5]

Hydro assist and crossover was the best thing I did to my truck other than putting the suspension seats in it. I did a full PSC System and crossover at the same time. I only have 4 inches of lift so I did not go the high steer route. If anything, I would start with the crossover setup first and then if you feel the need to go to hydro assist, go that route. My truck will turn aired down 39's on pavement with no issues whatsoever at idle.

Maybe I misunderstand, but isn't the high steering more important with less lift, or I guess tire size is what actually determine axle to ground clearance. I suppose the crossover generates better leverage thus pump psi doesn't need to be as high?

Do the XJ steering shaft now before anything else, this did more to tighten up my steering than the frame braces and crossover with high steer.

No matter how good the coupler is it’s still a soft connection that can flex, the XJ shaft will eliminate that.

Personally, I’d wait before drilling the pump orifice. Wait and see how the steering feels after the upgrades. This isn’t a bad upgrade but lots of folks report there’s a very fine line between getting the pressure improvement and ruining the orifice resulting in no pressure at all.

Thank you, I needed someone to tell me to just STFU and buy the XJ shaft.. I'll order one today (next wheeling trip is in 18 days). I'm trying to figure out "the right" XJ shaft, I've read lots of people saying the one they bought didn't fit their K5..

And I appreciate the words of caution, this is the first I've heard of that. Would it be better to start at 1/4" or may 3/32? IDK what the hole size is from the factory.

When you finally want to go all the way.
Lift height = irrelevant
Tire size = irrelevant
Amount of twisted up trail = irrelevant.

View attachment 530300

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What size are those TSLs? Full hydro is a distant dream, but they're also not street legal in WA, at least from what I'm told from the other local wheelers, and my truck will always be street driven, so I'm not looking to give the cops any additional reasons to pull me over, granted 99% probably wouldn't know any better lol..

 

[Blue85]

In general, crossover has the same leverage as push-pull. It really depends on the length of the pitman arm and steering arm, so it could change a little depending on your exact mix of parts. The real advantage is that you can still steer correctly when the axle droops. There are variants of Dana44 knuckles, so if you get a pair that has the tie rod holes tapering up, the tie rod mounts on top instead of on the bottom, giving a few more inches of clearance without going all the way to high steer.

The power steering pump fittings must be available somewhere, so you could drill one a little to try it. Maybe somebody makes a smaller power steering pulley?

 

[BoondocK5]

What size are those TSLs? Full hydro is a distant dream, but they're also not street legal in WA, at least from what I'm told from the other local wheelers, and my truck will always be street driven, so I'm not looking to give the cops any additional reasons to pull me over, granted 99% probably wouldn't know any better lol..

Those are the 42x14.5x16.5 Super Swampers.
There is lots of things on my truck that are questionable as far as being streetable.
Stock 52” springs front and rear, full hydraulic steering, 5.38/1 gears, Spools on both ends, drive slugs as opposed to locking hubs. 203/205 doubler transfer case, 8.1 liter engine, TH400 automatic.

And, I’m going to drive it on the street, to and from trails.
Legal? Mostly. Mudflaps and driving like grandma should keep Johnny Law away.

Anyway, do yourself a favor. Get the XJ shaft.
I’m looking for one also.

 

[83ChevyK5Blazer]

Are you smashing in your tie rod currently? If you aren't then I would not really worry with high steer, it just keeps the tierod out of the way.
I ran a sky offroad design set up for years, and had them do the machining on my d44 knuckle, then went to d60 with the same draglink.
Hydro assist was the best bang for the buck, crossover can still bind up.

Another good "budget" upgrade was gmt400 accessory brackets and a serpentine belt. My v belts slipped bad when the steering bound up, so I had to keep it revved up.

Are your power steering hoses standard or metric on an '80? When I went hydro assist the box I used was standard fittings so I used a 70's pump and the orfice was already the size of the drilled out " improvement".

 

[HankScorpio]

I have a 2002 Express 3500 steering shaft in my K5. Nice U-joints. Works great and you don't have to melt all the plastic out like the XJ shaft.

 

[Wes Harden]

Maybe I misunderstand, but isn't the high steering more important with less lift, or I guess tire size is what actually determine axle to ground clearance. I suppose the crossover generates better leverage thus pump psi doesn't need to be as high?

Thank you, I needed someone to tell me to just STFU and buy the XJ shaft.. I'll order one today (next wheeling trip is in 18 days). I'm trying to figure out "the right" XJ shaft, I've read lots of people saying the one they bought didn't fit their K5..

And I appreciate the words of caution, this is the first I've heard of that. Would it be better to start at 1/4" or may 3/32? IDK what the hole size is from the factory.

What size are those TSLs? Full hydro is a distant dream, but they're also not street legal in WA, at least from what I'm told from the other local wheelers, and my truck will always be street driven, so I'm not looking to give the cops any additional reasons to pull me over, granted 99% probably wouldn't know any better lol..

There are at least two different steering column shaft ends. The later squares used a double d style that matches the xj.
Earlier use a 41 spline @1" dia, I don't know when they changed. 80 is crossover year, could be early or could be late

 

[nvrenuf]

I grabbed my XJ shaft from a u-pull-it yard, nice tight u-joints and only $15.

I did have to melt out the plastic plugs like @HankScorpio mentioned, this allows the 2pc shaft to extend/collapse freely. 5 min with a torch.

As far as drilling the fitting, I’ve never done it. At one time years ago, drilling the fitting was the talk of the town and the mod was documented by Redneck Ram (?) that offered “cheaper” hydro assist kits. Some people reported pressure loss after drilling but that certainly could have been related to “close enough” drill bit sizes or the “bigger is better” mentality.

 

[HawK5]

I have a 2002 Express 3500 steering shaft in my K5. Nice U-joints. Works great and you don't have to melt all the plastic out like the XJ shaft.

Looks like I have the 1” 41 spline shaft, the column is also not original.. will the 02 express 3500 shaft work? I’ll look into it..

Another issue I need some guidance on. The wheels don’t turn as far left as right, see pics.. steering wheel straight will go 1.75 turns to the right and 1.25 turn to the left, Do I need to adjust the coupler to make the drag link longer?

And I haven’t hit the tie rod on anything yet, I was just thinking if I wanted to add high steer, that would likely change the ram mount..
And I have no idea if the hoses are metric or standard..

Edit: site is saying pics are too big, I turned Live Photo off, any tips?

 

[Fastereddie]

I have these settings, and it works well for the site.

 

[Wes Harden]

Looks like I have the 1” 41 spline shaft, the column is also not original.. will the 02 express 3500 shaft work? I’ll look into it..

Another issue I need some guidance on. The wheels don’t turn as far left as right, see pics.. steering wheel straight will go 1.75 turns to the right and 1.25 turn to the left, Do I need to adjust the coupler to make the drag link longer?

And I haven’t hit the tie rod on anything yet, I was just thinking if I wanted to add high steer, that would likely change the ram mount..
And I have no idea if the hoses are metric or standard..

Edit: site is saying pics are too big, I turned Live Photo off, any tips?

Borgson has a shaft that will work. The express shaft has the same ends as the XJ just a different length

 

[HankScorpio]

Express shaft in a 1990 K5. Stock tilt column, express shaft, 2wd o-ring steering box for reference.