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Steering ratios

Mastiff

Mastiff

1/2 ton status
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If I do crossover and get a new steering box, what's my best choice for ratio? I still have my original 1983 box in there now, and it always felt sloppy to me. Not like anything is loose, but just like the ratio was very high. Were they variable ratio or fixed in 1983? Anyone know the factory ratio that year?
 
Nobody has any info? It's a while down the road, but I'm starting to think about it.
 
If you don't get anything, I'll pull out the service manual and see if it's stated. I suspect it is. For some reason 16:1 variable sounds right. Performance car stuff was 12:1 fixed IIRC.

I've got my hands on a couple of car and truck boxes, one of my decades-long projects is to build a truck box that has a better on-center feel. I decreased the amount of assist from the pump, but it didn't make nearly the difference needed to actually feel the steering.

Driving the K5 feels like a boat. The jeep steering shaft is part of the picture, to eliminate possibility of "slop" due to the stock rag joint.
 
I drove 45acpjr's truck around the block. He's got crossover and some sort of AGR box and it felt way better than mine. I'll try and find out from him which AGR box he has. Because yeah, the K5 steering is not the best. My wife's minivan, for example, can practically burn your palms returning itself to center after a U-turn. The K5 feels like I can turn 1/4 turn while driving down the highway and barely change the trajectory. It's not slop either.
 
Deuling said:
Do you have rag joint or xj shaft?
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Rag, but I don't really blame it. It's been like this since new (yes, it's been in my family since 1983). I can see the stuff start moving immediately with the wheel. I am interested in making that better too, but I blame the ratio most.
 
I assume you experience the same thing I do, going from a new vehicle to the K5, you end up "sawing" the wheel in the truck back and forth just to keep going straight, where the newer vehicle wants to stay on center and requires a lot less concentration and effort to keep it there.

No particular slop I can see in my setup, I attribute it to the ratio/excessive assist as well. However, the torsion bar in the box I suspect is one of the major culprits with the on center feel. This power steering setup (even in cars) is pretty much maligned for being so "powerful" that road feel is eliminated.

Really good article here I thought http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/
 
afaik, there is only 1 ratio on our boxes.... unlike say, a monte carlo box... which had 2 different ratios available...
 
ryoken said:
afaik, there is only 1 ratio on our boxes.... unlike say, a monte carlo box... which had 2 different ratios available...
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So 16:1? Variable or fixed?

And Dorian, I agree with all you said. We had a caprice wagon when I was growing up and it was the same over-powered feeling in the steering.
 
Get a smaller steering wheel.


Not messing either . Mine looks stupid but it makes it much less sloppy feeling.
 
Well technically I guess there are a few different boxes out there (speaking cars) since you had variable, constant, then 12:1, etc.

16:1 does sound right for the trucks, and I have no recollection of ever seeing anything to indicate our trucks had anything but one ratio available.

Edit: FWIW, I checked the 1991 Service manual and 1986 sales brochure I have, neither lists the steering ratio. Kind of odd, normally the manual is good about that in the "specs" section. Talks about the pressure in every pump used though.
 
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Bringing this back up since I'm getting close to tearing into the steering. It just feels sloppy. I'm thinking a Borgeson shaft, ORD crossover, and a new steering box. Unsure if I should just get a reman box from the parts store, or spend $$ on a PSC box. Is it worth the money for a PSC? The only definite benefit of the aftermarket box is the option of changing the ratio. Can anyone say anything from experience regarding a 12:1 vs. factory (16:1, or maybe 13-16:1 variable.. ?).
 
When I did crossover on my '70, I got a faster ratio box from Benchworks there in Phoenix. They did a great job giving me what I wanted for feel and assist power. There are 2 different ratios out there with stock parts. I don't know what they are, but it gives you about 4 and 1/3 turns lock to lock, or 3 and 2/3 turns.
 
6872xtc said:
When I did crossover on my '70, I got a faster ratio box from Benchworks there in Phoenix. They did a great job giving me what I wanted for feel and assist power. There are 2 different ratios out there with stock parts. I don't know what they are, but it gives you about 4 and 1/3 turns lock to lock, or 3 and 2/3 turns.
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Do you remember what ratio you went with?
 
I have the faster ratio, but I do not knnow the actual number. I honestly suggest calling Benchworks.
 
6872xtc said:
I have the faster ratio, but I do not knnow the actual number. I honestly suggest calling Benchworks.
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I sent an email this morning. They said the factory is variable ration 14-17 and people call it "16:1" sometimes:

In your year truck GM used a 3.25" bore for the worm and rack gears and the ratio used is what is know as 17:1 variable ratio that once off of center it goes to 14:1 ratio (3.5 turns), people call it different things like 16:1 it's all that same and is as fast as GM offered in the 3.25" bore. If your truck has a light feel to it that's from a worn control valve in the steering gear.
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He gave a me a price quote for a 2WD box. The implication is that they don't offer alternatives. Sounds like you got a non-standard ratio from them?
 
He gave a me a price quote for a 2WD box. The implication is that they don't offer alternatives. Sounds like you got a non-standard ratio from them?[/quote] I talked with them directly on the phone, but it was a couple of years ago. I have had 2wd trucks with the different number of turns lock to lock. I even swapped one from a wrecked one onto my old '68 C10. This was back in the mid nineties, so I am fairly confident that they were factory boxes. Especially with the dirt and other parts around it looking untouched. So to my best knowledge, and what I remember of talking with Benchworks, I have stock parts, just matched in a way to give me what I wanted. They asked me questions about my truck to determine what to build, and send to me. My buddy bought a reman box from NAPA, and got a faster ratio from what he had. Have you checked yours for number of turns? Maybe Saginaw standardized in later years. (Keep in mind that I cut my teeth on '67-'72 stuff.) Maybe I should have thought of that sooner! Anyway, I really like what Benchworks sold me! It feels fine even since I installed 35's.
I did notice that when I got my ORD front springs, which was after going crossover, that it has a little bumpsteer on diagonal bumps. From what I have felt from mine and my buddies' K5 with ORD fronts, I believe that is caused by sideways axle movement fronm the flexy springs. (That '90 K5 has ALL PSC parts, and I don't care for the feel, with or without the ram-assist)
Maybe if you have some time you can call and speak with someone? I hope this helps.
 
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