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Stock air intake VS. Open air filter

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Ram air effect will not come into play until well over 100 MPH.

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Care to share with the rest of us the supporting info for this theory??



Or is this just another one of your opinions that are presented as fact?
 
OK, checked out your link.
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ANWSER: 185.45 mph!!! Air speed in a 3" pipe with 800 cfm of air moving through it. Makes me shake my head but it appears to be right. I also calculated for a 4" pipe and the speed dropped to 104 mph.

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Interesting stuff...
I don't remember the exact number, but at 100% volumetric efficiency (which is damn near unattainable) a 350ci engine doesn't consume anywhere near 800cfm of air at a reasonable RPM level. 600-something cfm at 5000rpm comes to mind, but I'm not sure about that number...
 
Dont think it works in real life. There is a manifold vacuum formed as the engine wants to suck air- Therefore, the function of ram air is not to boost air speed above atmospheric pressure, but rather to provide as much air that is usable to the engine, Optimally providing 0 negative manifold pressure. That is where ram air helps, by bringing enough air for the engine to burn.
 
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Dont think it works in real life. There is a manifold vacuum formed as the engine wants to suck air- Therefore, the function of ram air is not to boost air speed above atmospheric pressure, but rather to provide as much air that is usable to the engine, Optimally providing 0 negative manifold pressure. That is where ram air helps, by bringing enough air for the engine to burn.

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yep,

i wonder why trans ams and other models had factory ram air if it didnt help the engine to get more and colder air, hmm..

:P

the best setup you can have short of turbo or supercharger is a stock type closed air breather assembly with dual snorkel setup with intake venting runnign up to front of truck, just like used on the 82-up L69 HO 305 cars, if you can find one in a junkyard or parts car then snag it and put it in your rig, i have had a few of these cars, its all about getting colder air to the engine, and as much as the engine can take in and if you want i to be able ot take in any more air then get bigger valves and port the intake runnrs of the heads and intake(port match) and polish the exhausts but dont port those


anytihng that you can possibly do to increase air flow into and out of an engine(reduce resistance) then the better it will perform, engines are just big air pumps

and when you are traveling down the road at 40 or 50 or even 70mph there is quite a bit of air restance at those speeds, you can tell that simply by sticking your arm out into the air, that is way plenty enough of a forceful effect to ram air into the intake vent ducts of a duel snorkel vent setup. it can only help to put more air into the throat of an engine, i cannot see how it couldnt, and even nice cool air to boot /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

open element aftermarket air cleaners are a joke, i never run one on any of my vehicles, i find them pointless to even try to have, all they do is make your engine be stuck with having to suck in hot nasty air and why would you want that for your engine if you are wanting a litle bit more performance out of it. i always sell open element pos ones or trade them for tall stock closed element snorkel type cleaners and add another snorkel to them and run my dual setup with flexible ducting up to the grille or rad support, cutting pass through holes in the rad support wherever i can, this does make a good difference in performance, for sure,
those who have doen this conversion woudl agre,e unless they didnt do soemthign right :P




if someone thinks that anything im saying is not true then id have to say that they dont know too much about engines and performance,

each to his own though /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif :P

good luck
 
I disagree. "Ram air" is exactly that, an attempt to achieve some sense of boost by putting scoops/vents in the front of a vehicle.

There is no question in my mind that you will draw colder air from the decklid and thus see a mild power increase, but as to the "ram air" effect on a street driven vehicle, you will not.

As to the K&N and Cummins story, I read it off the Cummins website a while back. It is far from urban legend.

There is no question that a K&N filter will make slightly more power by increasing airflow, but a clean K&N does not filter very well compared to a good quality paper filter.

That link was to K&N's site to where it says that they cannot void your warranty due to aftermarket parts that don't actually cause the problem. I assure you that if you try to warranty a turbo that is full of dirt, reguardless as to whether you run a K&N filter or Fram filter or whatever, there is going to be question as to whether they're going to pay that warranty claim or not. A K&N is a performance product---it is not built to factory specifications.

I will not use a K&N on my daily driver for just that reason. Reguardless, they're quite popular and many people are sold on the hype as I once was.

I just don't think that tradeoff is one I'm willing to make for my daily driver.
 
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"16. Will the use of a K&N filter void my factory warranty?

It is against the law for a manufacturer to require the use of a specific brand of air filter unless it provides a replacement air filter, free of charge, under the terms of the warranty. For a more thorough discussion of this law known as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty, see our Vehicle Warranty Section of our Air Filter Facts page. Also see our Letter Regarding Vehicle Warranty and K&N Replacement Filters."

[/ QUOTE ]in Tim's defense, it may be unlawful for a company to reject a warranty for the brand of air filter used, it is however legal for them to reject it for a different type of air filter. K&N is a cotton gauze filter, is it not? stock elements are paper. i have seen more than one GM warranty engine get kicked because it was no equipped with a paper air filter, but a cotton gauze filter. the two that come to mind were both Accell filters, but IIRC they are made of the same material.
 
Check out this site. Now obviously since they sell the product you may need to take it through a "filter", but I don't think any of their claims are outrageous by any stretch. I'm looking to do something like this, either bought or homemade.

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I really want a snorkel set up for my K5. I am planning on moving back to the Omaha, Ne area with in a year so I won't have trees too worry about. I'll mostly be mudding, and the thought of a cool air intake system above the roofline sounds good to me. Plus they look really cool.

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Like in the movie "Dante's Peak" and Pierce Bronson is running around in that burban that has that snorkel. I know it's Hollywood, but I always thought it looked cool. And he even used it to cross that river.
 
Doesn't "rammed air" get slowed down considerably when it hits the FILTER???

I would think the only benefit from ram air would be if the filter was removed, or like mentioned previously, it just simply helps the engine take in air more efficiently.

Not really forcing it down the intake like a supercharger would. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
I always tell people to bust out their vacuum gauge, stick the end of the hose in the airbox before the filter, and go for a ride. I especially think it'd be a good idea for someone with a LS1 WS6 Trans Am because that ram air is known to work. You won't see more than 1psi. If you're lucky, you might see some "boost" even just before the throttle blades. You'll never see "boost" after the throttle blades caused by ram air.

We can argue about it all day...

But the biggest benefit to ram air is to get rid of any vacuum in the intake. That'd be anything before the throttle blades. You ain't want no f'n vacuum between the atmosphere and your throttle blades. If you're real lucky, you can even get a little bit of boost before the throttle blades. But anyway, the most important part is that the motor can get its air as fast as possible. The benefit of having velocity of the air is really nice as well. IE: see air horn.
 
shaddaup bluebie. I couldn't resist. /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

I'm sorry, I just couldn't contain myself. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif I'll try harder next time. I've been struggling with harassing BRB but I think my iraqi images were enough torture for a while. /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
 
I agree that the "ram air" affect would be minimal if it existed at all. What I'm after is getting relatively cooler air to the carburetor without suffocating the engine. From what I'm reading, that needs to be two 3" tubes (600cfm), and you can't get that from a factory setup.

Any ram air affect would just be gravy. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
i read a test from HOTROD on the best air filter. they tested just about every performance filter, a paper filter and no air cleaner. they did it on the same motor hooked to a dyno. they also got a flow reading on each size filter on like 5 brands. i think i still have that issue.

the no air cleaner lost 3 hp and 4 tg over the any air filter (surprised me)
the most hp and tq and the filter that cleaned and flowed the best was the paper filter. (surprised me again)

after reading that article i think the only advantage for going to a k&n is that its reusable, when its dirty you wash it off and stick it back on (preaty much). you'll spend more on the paper filters over time than on a k&n.

my friend had an open ellement filter on his 77 with a 305. when he took the hood off (folded in half one day, the next it flew off going down the road) he noticed an increase in power (on a 305 /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif) so obviously the hot air is really choking the motor.

curently i have an open element on my truck, i dont mind it, i get a little power increase when its cold out. some day (soon i hope) im gonna build a custom air cleaner, kinda like a stock one but with 2 tubes going back to the cowl area (i can see the cowl, i can't see where its now because of the hood)
 
I believe a single 4" is more than enough. In fact, I'm pretty sure an elliptical 4" is more than enough. I know my tall air cleaner with the 14x5" element in it flows more than my Quadrajet at 1.5" of Hg with the snorkle on it. It's the typical accordian style one that is 4" diameter on one end and elliptical at the air cleaner.

It kind of makes sense since a single 3" exhaust system provides about the perfect flow for a healthy 350. If you think about it... a single 3" system provides no backpressure yet is loaded with water vapor from the combustion process and since the exhaust gases are hot they're a lot less dense than when they went in the motor.
 
Yeah how about running the tubes into the cowl. I think that would work well without cluttering up the engine bay. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

What is the cowl area for? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

For such a seemingly simple topic, this is an awfully big string.
 
I dont have any fancy websites are quotes to back the K&N but I used to not believe it either. But I bought one b/c everyone said it would make a difference. Well my next wheeling trip proved it.. After a long day of playing I pulled my filter and so did my buddy. Inside of his filter was covered with dirt the air cleaner box was all dirty inside of the filter and the filter itself was trashed. Then we puled mine. Outside of the filter the box was nasty but inside of my filter it was still shiny clean and the inside of my K&N was clean. That wasall the proof I needed.
 
i think the cowl is to hide the wiper compents, i plan on running them straight back or almost straight back. so it wont clutter the engine bay too much.
 
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