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Stupid Ethanol

To his point, what are you guys gonna do when they switch to E15? Our government has committed to going to it.

They sell 100% gasoline all around me. Right now the prices are in line with the ethanol blend. Whether real or perceived, I will always use 100% gasoline in my 1974 carbureted Blazer. My disdain for the alcohol blend comes from the 1970's when it caused a mess that service shops were fixing for a long time. The other part of my disdain is the way it is forced upon us...and that 100% gasoline costs a little more. Shouldn't gas that you don't have to mess with cost less?
 
That's strange. If I remember right, you're just a little north of me. There only seems to be one station that sells within 10 mi of me, but I guess they just gained a new customer for the Blazer. My wife's car is new enough to handle E10 and my DD is a diesel, so I just want to protect the Blaze. I'll have to research that additive @FAB454 posted.
 
Ethanol is a joke! I sorta bought in on the idea until I found out most of the corn is imported!
 
That's strange. If I remember right, you're just a little north of me. There only seems to be one station that sells within 10 mi of me, but I guess they just gained a new customer for the Blazer. My wife's car is new enough to handle E10 and my DD is a diesel, so I just want to protect the Blaze. I'll have to research that additive @FAB454 posted.

There's three Chevron's and a Texaco within 7 miles in all directions and those are just the ones I have been to. I don't think they are "catering" to anyone, but there must be a reason they still offer it.
 
Ethanol is a joke! I sorta bought in on the idea until I found out most of the corn is imported!

The ethanol plant here in town gets all of it's corn from the Cargill elevator here. All of the corn from the elevator comes from local farms.

Martin
 
The only difference between burning ethanol and gas is the duty cycle on injectors. The only reason a car wouldnt run right with 5% more ethanol is because the OEM had the injectors specd close to max duty cycle, or the fuel trim wasnt adjusting fast enough.

If the injectors were maxed out, it would only be an issue at WOT - while cruising, there would be plenty of overhead. Adding ethanol just makes the base fuel map lean. The ECU should be able to adjust the fuel trims by 20%, which should be enough for a lot more than E20, as moving from E10 to E20 should be about 4% less energy content. It might take a lot of miles to adjust that far, as misfires mess up the trim process. I've heard that some cars just can't go beyond 10-15% and I'm not sure why (at least short-term), other than the possibility of injector pulsewidth near WOT.

I am curious what would happen by just tweaking the fuel pressure up a little.
 
Ethanol is a joke! I sorta bought in on the idea until I found out most of the corn is imported!
I have 3 ethanol plants with in 60 miles of me, maybe more I'm not sure, but the one 15 miles away uses 39 million bushels of corn a year from the area.
Our trucks have hauled at least 100 loads into one of the others. Usually a lot of local trucks and unfortunately a long wait sometimes.
 
Interesting viewpoints. I've done a little more research since starting this thread and oddly enough, the "experts" are still having similar disagreements as what's in this thread. I still object to something being pressed (blindly committed?) by the government that is still so controversial.

And to be clear, my initial post was more of a rant regarding the corrosive properties of ethanol and the material issues it can create in older vehicles. And, in my area, pure gas is kind of hard to find. For the purposes of this thread, all of that is still true.
 
Interesting viewpoints. I've done a little more research since starting this thread and oddly enough, the "experts" are still having similar disagreements as what's in this thread. I still object to something being pressed (blindly committed?) by the government that is still so controversial.

And to be clear, my initial post was more of a rant regarding the corrosive properties of ethanol and the material issues it can create in older vehicles. And, in my area, pure gas is kind of hard to find. For the purposes of this thread, all of that is still true.

I would agree with you on this but I don't know enough to really give a good perspective other than what I heard were problems. I would like to know as well - I'm I understanding that some on here are using E85 in vehicles that were not built to use E85 without any problems?
 
I have 3 ethanol plants with in 60 miles of me, maybe more I'm not sure, but the one 15 miles away uses 39 million bushels of corn a year from the area.
Our trucks have hauled at least 100 loads into one of the others. Usually a lot of local trucks and unfortunately a long wait sometimes.
We haul a crap load of corn by rail that comes off a boat. They were going to build a methanol plant on our line that would be supplied by imported corn only. The locals voted it down due to the potential of fires , explosions or boogie men idk. It was fairly close to some high dollar lake real estate that really killed it. I'm just completely opposed to foreign grain for ethanol/methanol. We have very little farming left in this part of country and I feel like we should support our own first. I have no problem dragging grain trains to be exported but hauling loaded imported stuff gets under my skin a little. The shipping industry wether by truck , rail or boat let's you see exactly what shape the country is in. I've been railroading a long time and have never seen a fair share of import export. Paper coal and scrap metal are about the only exports my company ships overseas. We haul containers full of manufactored Chinese junk every hr .
 
E85 is cheap race gas. You can use it to avoid knock while increasing compression, timing or (most importantly) boost. In the simplest sense, all you have to do it swap to bigger injectors at the same time (in reality, some fine tuning is needed). So plenty of forced induction guys switch over, but then you're locked into it, as you would be way rich on regular gas and wouldn't have the octane you need.

The gub-ment is forcing more ethanol on us to ruin all of our old carbs. They are ready to sell us the new "EPA" carbs that are non-adjustable and jetted too lean from the factory. These reduce emissions by making all of our small equipment run so poorly that we stop using it. Either that or we run the 2-strokes lean enough to destroy them and pick up new "greener" equipment (that has a manufacturing footprint far beyond the emissions a single user will ever create...) Fortunately these new carbs can be had pretty cheap, so you don't feel bad ripping off the few parts you need to keep your old carb running.
 
The US exports much, much, much more corn than it imports. Most imported corn demand is for Organic, or no GMO food use.

Martin
 
Lol I can say I successfully unintentionally derailed this thread. I now know more about corn than I ever wanted to know.
 
Ethanol broke down the anti-slosh foam in the fuel cell I bought, causing it to clog the pump/filters/and injectors. Cost me $300 to replace it all.
 
Quite a number of perspectives here this morning. I'll add mine, for no particular reason. I come from corn farming country in Iowa. But our tiny farm was on the corn-buying end of things, rather than the corn-selling end of things. Prior to the RFS, I paid $1.80 per bushel for corn. The year that RFS was introduced, the price doubled to $3.6o. Within a few years it headed up quite a bit before peaking between $8 and $9. I am no longer in the business of buying corn, and this is a big reason why. Several other family members are either out of the business or have come close. Several factors fed into the rising price, but RFS is a piece of the puzzle. Corn has since returned to lower price levels, but not to where it was before. This morning it looks like spot price (not retail) is at $3.51. It's nice to see it down again, if you're on the buying end of things. Perhaps not, if you're in Martin's shoes. :rolleyes: :pimp:

This is an illustration of what happens when markets are forced by outside intervention. Volitility. We might be able to grow enough corn to supply a significant portion of our fuel need. As an Iowan, It does seem kinda neat that Iowa could actually produce some of its fuel for once, rather than importing all of it from the oil-producing states & nations. I have no problem with Ethanol's use or production*. But suddenly forcing ethanol into the market place sent shockwaves through the price of corn, which has roiled several corn-buying industries. To add insult to injury, the gov't then took my tax dollars to subsidize the production of a commodity that wasn't even cost competitive. It's still not cost competitive 10 years later. If the gov't had simply stepped back and let demand grow naturally, we'd have less ethanol today (it would still be around), but we also would have a generation of farmers that had a decade of good sleep instead of fretfully closing up shop one-by-one. And, in all likelihood, I would still be buying corn, instead of trying to talk myself back into an industry that was fun but not very economic.

So I wanted to point out that there is a big picture here, and it is always dicey when the gov't decides to change the big picture. There is always a loser when the gov't decides to favor some new industry, and it's important to make sure that the economy is actually better off (overall) when winners and losers are chosen. This time a lot of losers were in the food industry, which is a fairly important industry in this country. Like most folks, I fill my tummy more often than I fill the gas tank. ;) So sacrificing one important area for what probably amounts to a slightly less important area doesn't seem like a particularly wonderful idea in the first place, even if it hadn't been done abruptly. And the way it was implemented has definitely eliminated me from the fan club. :doah:





* Side note: I do find it offensive how hard the gov't pushes folks to believe that Ethanol is equivalent to gasoline. Ethanol and gasoline are not equivalent. They do not behave identically, and the energy content per gallon is significantly different. Pricing the gallons similarly and then hoping people don't notice is like selling artificially-flavored diet orange soda for the same cost as freshly-squeezed full-pulp organic hippy orange juice. The products aren't the same, and it's just not honest to pretend that they are.

* Side note 2: I also find it highly annoying that the mandate has made it quite hard to find uncontaminated gasoline. Even Iowa sells E10 by default now (for years Iowa was a huge producer of Ethanol but not a huge consumer). Although it's still easier to find good gas in Iowa than in Wisconsin, and I can't remember ever finding clean gas in Upper Michigan. Let the fuels compete. If Ethanol can't hold its own in an open market place, why would we want to produce it? And what do we gain by forcing an uncompetitive fuel on an unwilling public? Seems like everyone is losing except the corn growers association. :dunno:
 
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