TBI fuel injector trouble?

[BoondocK5]

@BoondocK5

We’ll, just tried starter fluid and nothing. It tried to turn over and almost sounded like it had it once or twice but wouldn’t stay on

Wonder if that oil pressure sensor being the wrong size is still the culprit?
I have the new fitting showing up tomorrow now, wouldn’t be able to rotate the distributor even if I wanted since the one I put in is smack next to it

Back to square 1. Think it’s the distributor coil thats fried? Or is the timing that far off

View attachment 423432

The dizzy is in wrong.
Wait, wait!
Rotate the dizzy 45° counter clockwise. Then try to restart.


Pull it out. Get the motor on TDC. Then drop it back in. You can be 30° out, retarded, and it will still start. Won't run real good, but, it will start.

 

[jteck10]

The dizzy is in wrong.
Wait, wait!
Rotate the dizzy 45° counter clockwise. Then try to restart.


Pull it out. Get the motor on TDC. Then drop it back in. You can be 30° out, retarded, and it will still start. Won't run real good, but, it will start.

Rotate 45 counter and try again then if nothing pull it to get on TDC
got it, standby

 

[jteck10]

@BoondocK5

Rotated and tried to start and nothing. Tried with the starter fluid again too

I’ll try to remove the dist and make tdc tomorrow when I have more light and time

 

[Wes Harden]

Yeah the oil pressure sensor is blocking the counter clockwise rotation

 

[Wes Harden]

Make tdc before you remove dist.

Take the oil sensor out of the way. Cap off or use a fitting to relocate out of way. Dist might be stabed correctly but can't turn to right spot

 

[jteck10]

Make tdc before you remove dist.

Take the oil sensor out of the way. Cap off or use a fitting to relocate out of way. Dist might be stabed correctly but can't turn to right spot

yea my plan is to remove the oil sensor completely tomorrow, make TDC, remove dist, reinstall w/rotor pointed at cylinder #1, and put it back together
hopefully fedex shows up by the time thats ready with the new oil sensor fitting

and if that doesnt work tomorrow ill throw in a new dist coil

 

[jteck10]

@Wes Harden @BoondocK5

Alright boys, maybe making some progress here

Before my new oil pressure shows up I went to go get it on TDC
Did the ‘finger on the hole’ trick and definitely felt the compression push my finger off cylinder #1
Now my rotor is set on #1 (I was way off) which I presume is TDC, but now my timing mark is WAY off
When I adjust the dist is doesn’t move the timing mark.

Do I want the cylinder to be on #1 to try and fire? Or does the timing mark have to be in center or both?

See pictures, the red arrow with yellow mark is where timing mark is. I’m going to leave as is until the oil fitting shows up so I don’t mess it up any more

I haven’t removed the dist yet since I wanted to find TDC first

Home stretch maybe?!

 

[Wes Harden]

Use a 5/8 socket and line up the timing marks at crank shaft.
Then look to see where the rotor is pointing

 

[jteck10]

Use a 5/8 socket and line up the timing marks at crank shaft.
Then look to see where the rotor is pointing

ok, thinking through this more i think i see where i need to go

so the timing mark has to be on center at the crank AND the rotor has to be pointing at #1 for it to start, right?

1. keep adjusting crank to line up timing mark
2. pull distributor
3. re-insert distributor with rotor pointed as close as i can get lined up to #1 (where it is now)
4. button it all back up
5. start

correct?

 

[Wes Harden]

We should check the timing chain slack while we are here.
You will need a helper.
Tighten down the dist base, cap off, rotor on. Line up the timing marks by turning the crank clockwise. Mark the the rotor position. While watching the the rotor turn the crank slowly by hand counter clockwise, as soon as the rotor moves stop.
If it moves quickly your timing chain is most likely in good shape.
If if doesn't the chain is stretched, or has slipped.

 

[jteck10]

We should check the timing chain slack while we are here.
You will need a helper.
Tighten down the dist base, cap off, rotor on. Line up the timing marks by turning the crank clockwise. Mark the the rotor position. While watching the the rotor turn the crank slowly by hand counter clockwise, as soon as the rotor moves stop.
If it moves quickly your timing chain is most likely in good shape.
If if doesn't the chain is stretched, or has slipped.

got it, will do.
when i turned it earlier it seemed to move quickly as i adjusted, but i'll check again

do these steps sound like what i need to do next?
Timing in mark, rotor at #1, and cap adjusted for #1 close to rotor direction to start?

1. keep adjusting crank to line up timing mark
2. pull distributor
3. re-insert distributor with rotor pointed as close as i can get lined up to #1 (where it is now)
4. button it all back up
5. start

 

[Wes Harden]

Yes, only pull the dist if it is off.
If it is off we need to find out why.
If/when you pull the dist, inspect the roll pin holding the driven gear on shaft. They sometimes fail and then catch at opposite side.
If I understand correctly the truck ran with the distributor in the current stab ?

 

[jteck10]

Yes, only pull the dist if it is off.
If it is off we need to find out why.
If/when you pull the dist, inspect the roll pin holding the driven gear on shaft. They sometimes fail and then catch at opposite side.
If I understand correctly the truck ran with the distributor in the current stab ?

ok, since the rotor is lined up now, once i move to line up the timing mark it will definitely be off
i'll look for the roll pin and try to snag a picture when removed

correct - the truck ran with dist how it is now. for the past year or so
i never checked the timing, so i dont know if that has to do with it or if the dist is bad

 

[Blue85]

Keep in mind there was more than one style of timing marker. If you mix the tab location or balancer between years you can end up with the mark like 90 degrees off. It's also possible for the balancer to slip. Finger in the sparkplug hole doesn't lie.

 

[jteck10]

Keep in mind there was more than one style of timing marker. If you mix the tab location or balancer between years you can end up with the mark like 90 degrees off. It's also possible for the balancer to slip. Finger in the sparkplug hole doesn't lie.

so are you saying since i did finger in plug hole and felt compression, line up cap and fire away?

 

[jteck10]

@Wes Harden
Just turned to line up timing to 0 degree to match the mark and rotor is off.
Going to pull dizzy and try to reinsert close to rotor pointing at #1

 

[dyeager535]

TDC is Top Dead Center. That is when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke. If it pushes air past your finger it's the correct stroke, however the piston should be at the top of the stroke. Theoretically piston #1 at TDC is when the timing mark should be at zero, but as already mentioned, there are a couple of reasons it might not be.

Tired, not thinking this through, but if you get close to TDC, rotating the distributor while the engine is running will get you to 0*, but only if the timing mark/tabs are correct. Otherwise you'll need to physically know the piston is at the top of it's travel.

Rotor pointing to #1 cylinder is just to make for an easy, consistent reference. There is nothing magical about pointing at #1, except it gets you close and allows for easier adjustment. Probably why there is nothing solid to measure...just eyeball. Not trying to confuse the matter, just don't spend your time thinking it has to be absolutely perfect alignment or it won't work.

 

[jteck10]

TDC is Top Dead Center. That is when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke. If it pushes air past your finger it's the correct stroke, however the piston should be at the top of the stroke. Theoretically piston #1 at TDC is when the timing mark should be at zero, but as already mentioned, there are a couple of reasons it might not be.

Tired, not thinking this through, but if you get close to TDC, rotating the distributor while the engine is running will get you to 0*, but only if the timing mark/tabs are correct. Otherwise you'll need to physically know the piston is at the top of it's travel.

Rotor pointing to #1 cylinder is just to make for an easy, consistent reference. There is nothing magical about pointing at #1, except it gets you close and allows for easier adjustment. Probably why there is nothing solid to measure...just eyeball. Not trying to confuse the matter, just don't spend your time thinking it has to be absolutely perfect alignment or it won't work.

Definitely confused now.
So what am I aiming for.

Compression at #1 for tdc?
Or
Timing marks lined up?

 

[Mastiff]

I think ideally you feel the #1 at TDC and the mark lines up. Feeling for the air is relatively imprecise relative to the mark, assuming the mark is not messed up.

I'll let the experts weigh in, but if you are near TDC on #1 and have the rotor pointing pretty close to the #1 plug wire, it should start well enough to use a timing light to dial it in the rest of the way.

It's been a long time, but TBI has a specific procedure for timing since the computer controls the advance. Not like a carb vehicle where you set the advance you want with the light. You should find the manual page that explains the method.

 

[jteck10]

Yea now I’m getting confused.
Just tried starting it with the timing marks lined up, nothing

I’m going to take it apart again, put it at TDC using compression out of hole method, remove dist, reinstall with rotor pointing close to #1