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TBI, Open Loop, part throttle dead spot

bigdadhack

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Joined
Aug 20, 2022
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Minnesota
Hello, I'm new to forum, looking for some help.
This is a COLD engine OPEN loop problem only, all good when warm.
I have a 91 Suburban V2500 5.7L 4L80E
Basically when the engine is cold I have to work the throttle and pray I make it thru an intersection, or wait for it to warm up before I leave the driveway. Details below.
When cold I've watched the injectors, using timing light hooked to coil wire as a strobe, and can see the injectors shutoff completely as the throttle is slowly moved from idle to about 50%. The right and left injectors will alternate spraying for 1-3 seconds (one side shuts off at a time). Engine falls flat, missing etc... This can't be normal right? Beyond 50% both injectors are pulsing continuously (not alternating sides), engine comes back to life.
When warm I've watched the injectors, both sides pulse continuously when walking throttle from idle to WOT, runs good, no flat spots.
Idles and runs decent when warm in closed loop.
Idles decent when cold in open loop, little to half throttle it falls on face in open loop, above half throttle in open loop comes to life somewhat.
When cold, before going into closed loop, part throttle is a dead spot.
I've watched the injectors, using timing light hooked to coil wire as a strobe, and can see the injectors shutoff completely as the throttle is worked from idle to about 50%. The right and left injectors will alternate spraying for 1-3 seconds (one side shuts off at a time)
No codes - flashes 12
Idle vacuum above 18.5" mg when warm and cold
base timing at 0* and steady wire disconnected, 20* wire connected
EGR is plated off, port at TBI capped, module hooked up
new parts - TPS, IAC, MAP, Cap & rotor, plugs & wires, fuel filter, both temp sensors - no change
All engine grounds clean and good, sensor grounds good
Am I looking at a computer issue??
ALDL cable is in the mail somewhere
Thanks,
Hack
 
What signals is the computer looking for in OPEN loop that it ignores in CLOSED loop? Since this only occurs in OPEN loop I believe it to be ECM related?
Hack
 
No, not currently, likely will by this afternoon. But I was thinking if there's enough fuel pressure to support WOT shouldn't it be capable of supporting part throttle? I was actually shocked to see the injectors shut-off completely for a second or two. I tried it again this morning with a flashlight and saw same thing.
 
The 02 sensor is not used till the closed loop. The ecm has a learned fuel trim for open loop operation.
Bad grounds have caused many a werid drivability, good that you check 1 end. Try at the ecm.
Un plug the ecm inspect the pins and plugs, then reinstall. I have fix more then few odd drivability issues this way
 
I would suspect a component that isn't working right when it's cold. #1 by your description would be TPS, but you said you swapped it with no change. It is very easy to test, though, with just an ohmmeter. #2 guess would be MAP sensor. I have experienced a bad/wet one that would leave me hanging in intersections like you're describing (if it intermittently shows maximum vacuum, the ECM things you're in decel, which requires virtually no fuel). It doesn't sound like an ignition problem, other than the fact anything interrupting the ignition pulses stops the injectors from pulsing. The strange thing there is that usually ignition parts start flaking out when they get hot. Plus, how does the ignition even know you're moving the throttle?

Can you scan parameter while running, like WinALDL?
 
Update - Long story short it was a fuel pressure issue - low fuel pressure. Installed an EP381 pump and cold start issues are gone. Runs better through whole spectrum, cold/warm idle to full throttle. Oh well, the truck got some much needed love, I gained a bunch of knowledge of a 30 year old obsolete fuel system. Thanks for the input.
Hack
 
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