Tesla Cybertruck pickup truck

[dhcomp]

How big of an air compressor or welder can you run off the built-in inverter? Tesla should capitalize off this by offering some serious AC output. After all, they don't have to start at 12V like a normal car and draw 200A to start a compressor motor, they only need 6A off the 400V battery pack. An 85kWh battery pack could theoretically provide 15A @ 110VAC for 51 hours. Does the warranty allow aftermarket add-ons?

Details on this stuff hasn’t been released yet, so I’m just speculating along with you. But there is a built in compressor already, along with the 120v and 240v outlets. I would guess that they wouldn’t have a 240v outlet unless you can pull some serious amps.

Add ons are an interesting thought. My mind went more to strobes, rooftop beacon, lights, etc. Hope that they’d have presided circuits like the hd fords do for add ons. And hopefully integrated brake controller like most do now.

 

[dyeager535]

I REALLY like where you are going with this, but I think you are making some incorrect assumptions.
You are assuming that a gas car and an electric car go the same distance on a kWh of power. This is incorrect. The ev is vastly more efficient, with way less losses to friction (less moving parts) and heat (combustion/result of friction)

If a gallon of gas contains 36kWh of energy, then MPG when you burn the gas in a vehicle is a valid comparison. At 10MPG or 50MPG, you are "burning" 36kWh to go that distance. In my situation, my car goes 40MPG on a gallon of gas. At $3/gallon (present gas price locally) gas is $.08/kWh, which is also what I pay for electricity. If a Tesla can go 40 miles on 36kWh (or 1.11 miles on 1kWh), the cost is equivalent.

I also don't like being forced into a higher optioned car. My grocery getter/commuter is a disposable commodity. If it gets hit, I get another one. We generally don't do that with 30K vehicles. I'd like to see what a Tesla cost to throw together sans all the nice-ities. Obviously some of it is tied into the way the vehicle operates, but there appears to be a fair bit that could be eliminated, I'd like to see what that vehicle would cost.

If you knew the kWh/mile figure for a model 3, you could probably take a semi-educated WAG for the same on a gas or Electric truck.

Of course, to be clear, the per mile cost of a gas vehicle eventually has to factor in the maintenance costs that are not associated with an EV. I've been assuming there are no EV-specific maintenance costs.

 

[imiceman44]

If a gallon of gas contains 36kWh of energy, then MPG when you burn the gas in a vehicle is a valid comparison. At 10MPG or 50MPG, you are "burning" 36kWh to go that distance. In my situation, my car goes 40MPG on a gallon of gas. At $3/gallon (present gas price locally) gas is $.08/kWh, which is also what I pay for electricity. If a Tesla can go 40 miles on 36kWh (or 1.11 miles on 1kWh), the cost is equivalent.

I also don't like being forced into a higher optioned car. My grocery getter/commuter is a disposable commodity. If it gets hit, I get another one. We generally don't do that with 30K vehicles. I'd like to see what a Tesla cost to throw together sans all the nice-ities. Obviously some of it is tied into the way the vehicle operates, but there appears to be a fair bit that could be eliminated, I'd like to see what that vehicle would cost.

If you knew the kWh/mile figure for a model 3, you could probably take a semi-educated WAG for the same on a gas or Electric truck.

Of course, to be clear, the per mile cost of a gas vehicle eventually has to factor in the maintenance costs that are not associated with an EV. I've been assuming there are no EV-specific maintenance costs.

From my recent research the x gets the equivalent of 100mpg so I don't know how they get that number but that is where the savings are, but that still takes a while to get the cost of purchase eliminated.
I would never buy a new one.
Used depreciated enough I might consider it.

 

[campfire]

I also don't like being forced into a higher optioned car. My grocery getter/commuter is a disposable commodity. If it gets hit, I get another one. We generally don't do that with 30K vehicles.

Ding, ding, ding. This whole discussion is forgetting that a lot of people never buy a new car, and most never buy an new high-end car. The math is different for these folks. Tesla's cars aren't nearly as universal as Elon likes to think...

 

[dyeager535]

From my recent research the x gets the equivalent of 100mpg so I don't know how they get that number but that is where the savings are.

That's the problem with all the numbers. They are either intentionally made difficult to compare, or there is some weird thought process into it. Not saying 100mpg isn't right, just that I'd like to see real comparative numbers. I need to see the savings to get my interest.

No different than when I was considering a significantly more expensive diesel vw sportwagen. The 700 mile range was really appealing. But it only got 50mpg, and because the mileage wasnt significantly better, plus it cost so much more initially, the car that was half the purchase price was easily cheaper per mile up to at least 200,000 miles, assuming no unscheduled maintenance on either.

 

[dhcomp]

At $3/gallon (present gas price locally) gas is $.08/kWh, which is also what I pay for electricity. If a Tesla can go 40 miles on 36kWh (or 1.11 miles on 1kWh), the cost is equivalent.

If you knew the kWh/mile figure for a model 3, you could probably take a semi-educated WAG for the same on a gas or Electric truck.

The historic average on the last 30k on my car is 281wh/mi, or 0.281kwh/mile. This would be the equivalent of 128 miles on 36kwh (your assumption for 1 gal). So, more than 3x as far as the 40 mpg comparison you made above. That's where the difference really lies. No idea what efficiencies they are claiming for the S/X/3, just using the actual off my car.

So even if the truck was 1/2 as efficient, the comparison to a 20mpg truck would be ~3x, a very compelling savings.

 

[dhcomp]

Ding, ding, ding. This whole discussion is forgetting that a lot of people never buy a new car, and most never buy an new high-end car. The math is different for these folks. Tesla's cars aren't nearly as universal as Elon likes to think...

As much as this is a valid point, it doesn't make sense to make new vehicles targeted at people that never buy new vehicles. The best they can do it target those that DO by new cars, and make it more cost effective than what they bought the last time.


A bit more food for thought:

While not bulletproof data, what cars people are trading in towards model 3's is a very interesting topic. Lots of comparable mercedes, bmws, etc, but also lots of old leafs/civis/accords/priuses. This is surprising because it shows people "upgrading" and buying a more expensive car than they have in the past, especially when their historic purchasing behaviors were very cost driven.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/01/tesla-model-3-top-5-trade-in-cars/

 

[JT88K5]

Just about 3 million pickups sold in 2018. There is market.

https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2019/01/pickup-truck-sales-breakdown-fourth-quarter-2018.html

 

[imiceman44]

The historic average on the last 30k on my car is 281wh/mi, or 0.281kwh/mile. This would be the equivalent of 128 miles on 36kwh (your assumption for 1 gal). So, more than 3x as far as the 40 mpg comparison you made above. That's where the difference really lies. No idea what efficiencies they are claiming for the S/X/3, just using the actual off my car.

So even if the truck was 1/2 as efficient, the comparison to a 20mpg truck would be ~3x, a very compelling savings.

Well it works for cars but when they tried to use the x like an suv towing 4500lbs it used 7.25x the amount of energy compared to no trailer.
No gas or diesel truck uses that much more while towing, that is why I don't know if it's a viable option for people that want to use it as a truck

 

[runamok151]

there are some good reports out there, for sure.

2 things I can comment on:
While much of our electrical grid power is coming from renewable sources, what we do know is that the generation of that power is getting cleaner every day. Each day, more sustainable generation is coming online. Therefore, when powered off these sources, an electric vehicle gets “cleaner” over time. Versus a gasoline car that stays the same ( or gets worse as it gets older).

Battery cell recycling: these cells are highly recyclable, and contain a lot of valuable materials. Most of which can be recovered and reused through proper processes.
Partial explanation here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...dwood-materials-recycling-expands-nevada.html

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/0...ent-batteries-wants-to-do-more-in-the-future/

That's not true. More and more of our electric is being imported from Canada. The deficit is well over 30% now and that amount is going up a lot this year because 2 of our nuc plants are being shut down in '19. I know renewable energy sources are increasing but that doesn't mean they're being utilized. There are dozens of wind mills in the bays on the NJ coast. You're lucky if 30% are spinning at any given time because they are being locked to keep from generating electricity. And I had solar panels on my last house. The electric co. would occasionally block my electric from going into the grid.

Another aspect that is rarely compared/ talked about is how much of an impact does it have on the environment to create renewable energy sources (batteries and solar panels are particularly expensive and toxic to make) compared to extracting oil, a naturally occurring compound. It takes a lot of strip mining to extract the metals and salts for this technology. Let's not forget about the wars being waged to secure future mining sites (Afghanistan).

 

[dhcomp]

Well it works for cars but when they tried to use the x like an suv towing 4500lbs it used 7.25x the amount of energy compared to no trailer.
No gas or diesel truck uses that much more while towing, that is why I don't know if it's a viable option for people that want to use it as a truck

yep, towing is a different beast. Although, by the time the truck is out, there will hopefully be many hauling miles on the semi truck.

 

[dhcomp]

That's not true. More and more of our electric is being imported from Canada. The deficit is well over 30% now and that amount is going up a lot this year because 2 of our nuc plants are being shut down in '19. I know renewable energy sources are increasing but that doesn't mean they're being utilized. There are dozens of wind mills in the bays on the NJ coast. You're lucky if 30% are spinning at any given time because they are being locked to keep from generating electricity. And I had solar panels on my last house. The electric co. would occasionally block my electric from going into the grid.

Another aspect that is rarely compared/ talked about is how much of an impact does it have on the environment to create renewable energy sources (batteries and solar panels are particularly expensive and toxic to make) compared to extracting oil, a naturally occurring compound. It takes a lot of strip mining to extract the metals and salts for this technology. Let's not forget about the wars being waged to secure future mining sites (Afghanistan).

There are lots of complications and politics surrounding our energy generation, this is true. And without large mounts of storage on the grid (historically before the last few years there has been none), renewables are only useful when they can be consumed immediately. This is one of many reasons solar isn’t purchased or windmills are idled. More and more utilities are adding storage from Tesla or other battery manufacturers, and this is allowing renewables to be better utilized.

There are starting to be a lot more articles on the “cost” of battery production. Here’s a recent one.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...polluting-than-30-cups-coffee-researcher/amp/

While there seem to be some environmental impacts, the lifespan of the materials once extracted and used once seems to more than offset the impacts when compared to burning fossil fuels. Once you consider recycling these products to reuse the material, the useful life expands even longer.

 

[Blue85]

Well it works for cars but when they tried to use the x like an suv towing 4500lbs it used 7.25x the amount of energy compared to no trailer.
No gas or diesel truck uses that much more while towing, that is why I don't know if it's a viable option for people that want to use it as a truck

Is that true? I can believe that towing a trailer up the grade uses 7.25x as the vehicle does not towing on the level. That's like saying it gets 36MPG cruising down the highway and 5MPG hauling a trailer up a grade. It just seems like physics dictates the same energy against gravity and wind drag whether it's coming from a fuel tank or a battery.

We don't see a ratio that big with a standard pickup truck because it's less efficient cruising on it's own than the little SUV-thing is. Tesla is advertising long range numbers because of low drag, etc. When it comes down to raw work, it's a matter of energy. With a gallon of gas containing about 33.7kWh, an EV being 85% efficient, and a gas engine 25% efficient, an 85kWh battery is like carrying 8.5 gallons of gas. So no wonder they have trouble getting between charging stations while towing. (Somebody probably has more accurate numbers, but you can see my point.)

The big Cybertruck battery is supposed be 200kWh, which makes it equivalent of a 20 gallon gas tank, so probably half the range of a regular tow rig.

 

[jekquistk5]

I'm interested in what happens if I go hunting and have to go through a lil swap/ mud hole. Its all wheel drive but are the motors covered to go through a mud hole.

 

[TerryD]

I'm interested in what happens if I go hunting and have to go through a lil swap/ mud hole. Its all wheel drive but are the motors covered to go through a mud hole.

I would assume they're using good sealed motors. They'd be crazy not to. We have big industrial motors at work that will run completely submerged in paper stock for hours as long as the leads are sealed up good. They usually just burn up because paper stock doesn't do the cooling thing very well.

 

[dhcomp]

I would assume they're using good sealed motors. They'd be crazy not to. We have big industrial motors at work that will run completely submerged in paper stock for hours as long as the leads are sealed up good. They usually just burn up because paper stock doesn't do the cooling thing very well.

I would hope they at very sealed.
Not that this is recommended, but always a fun watch when someone says “do I have to worry about puddles in my electric car?”

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2016/06/20/tesla-model-s-swims-through-flooded-tunnel.html

 

[jekquistk5]

I would hope they at very sealed.
Not that this is recommended, but always a fun watch when someone says “do I have to worry about puddles in my electric car?”

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2016/06/20/tesla-model-s-swims-through-flooded-tunnel.html

I would hope so as well, I just know often with rain the two tracks become somewhat swamp like and puts wear and tear on a standard truck, I would assume its the same for electric. And what I drive through wouldn't be considered a "puddle" more of a pond...lol

 

[Chevy305]

Plenty of YouTube videos of Tesla's fording through flooded streets. Can they do it? sure! Can any conventional truck do it too? sure! Will prolonged exposure to water cause problems in both vehicles? Guaranteed or your insurance gives you your money back

 

[runamok151]

Oh, and lets not forget about having an accident in a battery powered car. You can't put out the fire. A) Firefighters can't spray water on it because they can be electrocuted (same problem they have w/ buildings w/ solar panels on the roofs). And 2) even if they can temporarily stop the fire, batteries keep cooking off and restarting it. The electric supercar that Richard Hammond crashed on the last season of Top Gear burned for 2 weeks.

 

[diesel4me]

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