The Great Smaug

[beags86]

Bump, bump, bump. Get to work...

 

[campfire]

Bump, bump, bump. Get to work...

Haven't touched the tranny yet, but I did drive it to town again today. Same as before. Everything is fine except that it shifts slowly (flirting with neutral when going from 2-->3). This time it didn't jump out of 4th on the way back home. Not sure whether I should feel fed up with it or whether I should just accept it and see how it does. Maybe I should try a 1/2-hour highway trip to see how it handles once it gets warmed up.

I do know that by next summer I want a trustworthy camping rig. This tranny is not inspiring trust at this point. So something's gonna give, sooner or later.

 

[beags86]

I do know that by next summer I want a trustworthy camping rig. This tranny is not inspiring trust at this point. So something's gonna give, sooner or later.

Sounds like rebuild time. From our conversations in my other thread it sounds like you should just pull it and rebuild it so it's a non issue come summer exportation time.

 

[campfire]

Went out to the barn tonight to experiment with cold weather starting. Temperature was 9*F (fairly steady). Barn has several large (truck-sized) openings in it, so inside temp should be the same 9*F. Suburban has been sitting since late-summer, and has only one battery hooked up. Glow plugs were replaced a few thousand miles ago.

Walked out, cycled the plugs, cranked it over kinda slowly and did not quite start before running the one battery down. I put my 6 amp charger on it and turned to the Blazer sitting next to it. 24V starter, with both batteries working, cranked the engine over rather effortlessly (quite a difference). But I was not able to start it, after much fiddling, as the glow plug system ceased working recently. Relay stopped clicking. I jumped the relay, and still got no plugs. I manually connected the relay lugs and found that the plugs seemed to be working. But I couldn't hold the jumper and crank at the same time (), so I was not able to get it started. I did wind up wiring it on and cranking, and it almost started, but whatever plugs I had burned out rather quickly. I guess they weren't Duraterms. I now have ~95 Ohms across the glow plug circuit (where I should have very close to zero). I could have a broken wire (haven't checked yet), but it did seem to be working for a bit. And now it's completely gone. This is pretty much how my initial troubleshooting went with Big Blue. It's kinda nice to have nearly identical drivetrains in these rigs. I decided not to dig further into it tonight due to the temps.

Then I went back to the Suburban, cycled the plugs, cranked it over, and it fired right up. Not as quickly as summer time, but I'm satisfied with how it turned out. And it made for a pretty nice smoke shot:



I'm pretty sure the CUCV would have fired up too, if I had gotten the plugs working. It was still cranking quickly when I stopped (but it clearly was not firing). And I think the Suburban would have fired up on the first try if it had had the second battery installed.

But either way, this is still the coldest that I've started these trucks without block heaters. I think Big Blue now has more broken plugs than working ones. It just barely started at 25*F last time I tried. Time for new plugs on both rigs.

So that's the update for tonight. Always nice to get out and play with the iron. Even when the temperatures plunge.

 

[GWeakland620]

Hey now, you can't just copy and paste! Haha jk. Yes you can.

It was 4* here yesterday....I kid.

But no really it was. Makes you appreciate the nicer temps.

 

[campfire]

Hey now, you can't just copy and paste! Haha jk. Yes you can.

It was 4* here yesterday....I kid.

But no really it was. Makes you appreciate the nicer temps.

Why not? Today I conducted a test that involved both trucks, so I shared it in both threads. And why would I take the time to retype it? Copy & paste is the way to go!

Cold temps or no cold temps, today I was just glad to get outdoors. Even if it was just for a 1/2 hr of putzing around the barn. Is it bad if I'm already tired of winter? Any other year I would have been disappointed by the mild winter we've had so far. This year I have a long list of outside things I wanna work on, and see the single-digit temps as interfering with that.

I'm sure the answer to doing mechanical things in the cold is getting a garage or a shop. But I don't think that's happening in the foreseeable future. The leaky barn is a huge step up from working in the driveway or on a curbside. So I am thankful.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

I forget the brand but I put some quick heat/non swell plugs in Big Ugly along with two new batteries and VAROOM it started easy and quick every time.

 

[diesel4me]

Why not? Today I conducted a test that involved both trucks, so I shared it in both threads. And why would I take the time to retype it? Copy & paste is the way to go!

Cold temps or no cold temps, today I was just glad to get outdoors. Even if it was just for a 1/2 hr of putzing around the barn. Is it bad if I'm already tired of winter? Any other year I would have been disappointed by the mild winter we've had so far. This year I have a long list of outside things I wanna work on, and see the single-digit temps as interfering with --

I'm sure the answer to doing mechanical things in the cold is getting a garage or a shop. But I don't think that's happening in the foreseeable future. The leaky barn is a huge step up from working in the driveway or on a curbside. So I am thankful.

Having a garage,even a warm one,doesn't raise my ambition much to go fix anything like it once did when I was younger and felt better.....now that I've managed to fill my garage with various other "junk" and cant even fit my truck into it,I have little desire to go move stuff around so it can..my bones ache from the cold and I find myself wanting to sit by the wood stove more than do anything else when its below freezing out,if I go out there..often its colder IN the garage than outside lately too..(but being out of the wind & damp is 90% of the battle--if I have to I can take working in a cold garage provided its not drafty or damp inside)..

It drops down to the teens at night lately and it'll hit 40+ during the day if its sunny and not windy out,but the garage stays cold like a meat locker all day unless you get a roaring blaze going in the stove--opening the overhead door and letting the sun in works to warm the slab up better..
I like going out and "putzing around" too,like you say,but I often regret doing so the day after--seems like once I get chilled I get real sore,and it'll take days to recover from trying fix things..

I had visions of being able to do a "complete" restoration on at least one of my vehicles once I had a garage to work in--that didn't happen though,once my health degraded the garage became more of a lounge or man-cave ...

 

[campfire]

I forget the brand but I put some quick heat/non swell plugs in Big Ugly along with two new batteries and VAROOM it started easy and quick every time.

I put AC Delco 60G plugs in the Suburban, and I've been quite happy ever since. At the same time, I bought a set of Duraterms to try out in Big Blue, but I haven't put them in yet because Big Blue hasn't had problems starting in the warm weather (and I'm not driving it on the salt this year). So it has been good enough for summer use, but it was a bearcat to start a couple weeks ago. If I wanna drive it again this winter I will be swapping out plugs.

The Blazer, OTOH, is intended for winter driving. So it will be getting good plugs regardless.

 

[campfire]

being out of the wind & damp is 90% of the battle--if I have to I can take working in a cold garage provided its not drafty or damp inside

I think this is the magic point. I've lived in several places, but never had any form of shelter for projects or tools. This barn has a leaky roof and lots of wind leakage, but it's way, way nicer than trying to work on a curbside or a driveway. It may be cold, but the snow and rain are staying almost completely off of my tools and work space. No way I'd be doing a tranny swap right now in my snow-covered driveway. I would simply wait until spring (which is what I have done in previous years).

 

[blazinzuk]

I have started the Jimmy at about -15 without it being plugged in. Kennedy quick heats, 2 good batteries, upgraded wiring between the batteries and to the starter. Truck wasn't happy but I crank it about 15 seconds then rest for about 10. It started on the 3rd time I cranked it.

I did the wires and a new starter at the same time. The difference in cranking speed was insane.

 

[campfire]

I have started the Jimmy at about -15 without it being plugged in. Kennedy quick heats, 2 good batteries, upgraded wiring between the batteries and to the starter. Truck wasn't happy but I crank it about 15 seconds then rest for about 10. It started on the 3rd time I cranked it.

I did the wires and a new starter at the same time. The difference in cranking speed was insane.

I did forget to mention that the Suburban does have the MT28 (gear reduction) starter. The CUCV does not, but 24V service significantly cuts down on line losses. It cranked over quite nicely.

Not sure why, but it seems fun to try starting at progressively lower temperatures. These haven't seen winter driving much, so I haven't tried cold-starting them very many times. I have no idea how well they'll handle sub-zero temperatures. I know that Big Blue on a block heater laughs at -20*F. But that's cheating.

I may do the wiring upgrade at some point.



Oh...the other thing at play here is that the CUCV has both batteries on the starter side. Several feet of battery cable are thus eliminated. It makes for a lop-sided engine compartment, but shorter wires = good thing. This is the first time that CUCV has ever failed to start at any temperature I've tried (and it wasn't from lack of cranking, it clearly was not getting warmed). I've always been surprised at how effortlessly that truck started. Might be one reason that I've kept it this long.

 

[GWeakland620]

Not sure why, but it seems fun to try starting at progressively lower temperatures. These haven't seen winter driving much, so I haven't tried cold-starting them very many times. I have no idea how well they'll handle sub-zero temperatures. I know that Big Blue on a block heater laughs at -20*F. But that's cheating.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoys the cold weather challenges.

 

[black dawg]

I have a set of duratherms that I have had for probably 8 years, and been in several different motors. havent burnt out one yet. And they have been torture tested.

 

[campfire]

I have a set of duratherms that I have had for probably 8 years, and been in several different motors. havent burnt out one yet. And they have been torture tested.

Cool. My original goal was to get a set of each and test them against each other to see which one lasted longer. But until recently Big Blue wasn't needing plugs, so they're still in the box. They'll probably go in the CUCV first, as I'm not planning to run Big Blue this winter.

I hope mine last as long as yours.

 

[muddermilitia]

Stupid question, but are you holding the throttle down while you are cranking? I always had pretty good luck starting my old m1009. I would use the block heater, but usually only plugged it in for maybe an hour 1st thing in the morning. But never again for the rest of the day

 

[campfire]

Stupid question, but are you holding the throttle down while you are cranking? I always had pretty good luck starting my old m1009. I would use the block heater, but usually only plugged it in for maybe an hour 1st thing in the morning. But never again for the rest of the day

Yep. My visor tag says to hold the throttle 1/2-way down above 32* and all the way down if it's below 32*F. This is the 6th winter that I've been playing with 6.2 engines in the cold. I'm pretty comfortable starting the other rigs, and this is the first time at any temperature that the CUCV has failed to start. It shouldn't need a block heater at these temps, IMO, as it was cranking at least twice as fast as the Suburban, which did eventually start (neither rig used the block heater. But I haven't yet checked the condition of the glow plugs on this rig.


But the non-functional glow plug relay is a known issue. I first noticed the problem when I pulled it out of the shed and hauled it up to the Northwoods. I have had to manually jump the relay lugs ever since then. So my real goal in dinking around with it it was to troubleshoot the relay and figure out why it isn't working. I was surprised to find that the plugs weren't warming when manually caused the relay to flip. The P.O. added a button isolating the relay from the stock GP controller. So if you push the button it connected to the controller, but most of the time the circuit was dead. This was annoying, as the button could not force the plugs to actually warm. And when they did, it ran the old short cycle that the 9G plugs required. It's really nice to have manual control of the plugs in the other rigs (much faster than waiting for the plugs to warm up on the short cycle). I don't have much motivation to rewire the controller to increase the cycle time. My finger does a fine job.

Prior to the glow plug issue, I've had this truck in storage for 3 years. 2 or 3 times each year I've gone out to start it up, and it has always fired right off. Much more nicely than Big Blue. Even with sitting. I'm quite confident that it will be easy to start when I trace down this electrical issue. The high cranking speed is really neat.

 

[muddermilitia]

There's a starter relay for Ford Powerstrokes that is supposed to be a better alternative for the stock glow plug relay, plus its cheaper. Thats what I had on m1009 since my gp relay went out the 1st winter I had the truck

 

[campfire]

There's a starter relay for Ford Powerstrokes that is supposed to be a better alternative for the stock glow plug relay, plus its cheaper. Thats what I had on m1009 since my gp relay went out the 1st winter I had the truck

Big Blue is using a generic 12V starter relay from the farm store. The kind that get retrofitted to Farmalls and Deeres. If mine is truly toast (it's still flipping, so I'm not yet sure that's it's the problem), I have a used spare lying around that I can use (from a Ford 1/2-ton, IIRC). Or I can go buy a new one for a few bucks.

Either way, it's getting wired for manual control this time. Having a manual disconnect for the automatic controller seems like a half-baked solution to a flaky controller, IMO. Now that the controller is no longer turning the relay on, it has gotten significantly harder to start.

 

[muddermilitia]

Either way, it's getting wired for manual control this time. Having a manual disconnect for the automatic controller seems like a half-baked solution to a flaky controller, IMO. Now that the controller is no longer turning the relay on, it has gotten significantly harder to start.

Yeah that's the way to go. I believe the controller on my old m1009 took a crap last year (I sold it to a co worker 2 years ago) and I keep telling him to eliminate the controller and just put in a manual push button