CK5
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The Green Grendel
- Thread starter campfire
- Start date
Not panicked. Just annoyed that it didn't fit.
I am halfway dreading getting that NV4500 up there, though. I've done a small number of tranny jobs, but I haven't had to wrangle one by myself before. And this one is heavy enough that it's hard for me to move it. I do have a tranny jack, but I'm not sure how well I'll be able to drag it through the sand, shove it under the truck, and hoist it up to the jack. Not to mention getting it aligned. But I will get it, and the tranny will get there someday. Someday soon, in all likelihood.
I do see why people spend so many hours and dollars building shops. They are so nice. The sandy floor of this barn is infectious. It seems to get everywhere. Here's hoping for a clean and uncontaminated tail shaft. And oil pan. And differential housings (x2). And a hundred other places the sand wants to go. 
So it's safe to say this build is stretching my abilities. If you would have told last year's version of me that he'd be rebuilding the truck in a sandbox, he probably would have laughed at the absurdity of picking that location. But here I am. Learning a lot every day. Lotta firsts in this build (which is how it should be), but the biggest is the auto-->stick conversion. I planned out this swap when Big Blue blew its tranny, but some well-meaning people talked me out of it. It didn't take long for me to wish I had stuck with the plan back then. This conversion is costing a fraction of what the rebuild cost, and I think I'll enjoy the end product a whole lot more. We'll see.
So it's safe to say this build is stretching my abilities. If you would have told last year's version of me that he'd be rebuilding the truck in a sandbox, he probably would have laughed at the absurdity of picking that location. But here I am. Learning a lot every day. Lotta firsts in this build (which is how it should be), but the biggest is the auto-->stick conversion. I planned out this swap when Big Blue blew its tranny, but some well-meaning people talked me out of it. It didn't take long for me to wish I had stuck with the plan back then. This conversion is costing a fraction of what the rebuild cost, and I think I'll enjoy the end product a whole lot more. We'll see.
I googled the part # you listed for the flywheel and found some posts that may help you out..
It seems there was 2 different starters,the nose opening on manuals has to be bigger--but will also work on an automatic,so most parts stores or rebuilt ones are "consolidated" into one part number,the large opening one--the smaller automatic nose will hit the manual flywheel,according to this post I found..NV4500 Swap to a CUCV..Starter problems....Everything else good. | The Truck Stop
It seems there was 2 different starters,the nose opening on manuals has to be bigger--but will also work on an automatic,so most parts stores or rebuilt ones are "consolidated" into one part number,the large opening one--the smaller automatic nose will hit the manual flywheel,according to this post I found..NV4500 Swap to a CUCV..Starter problems....Everything else good. | The Truck Stop
Thanks. I have not had the time to think about this since the last update. But that thread makes a lot of sense. The flywheel has a lip extending forward of the teeth, while the flex plate has none. In order to get the teeth in the right place, that ledge will be sticking further forward.
I have heard of the small-opening starters, and seen pictures of them in the little helpful sheet that Autozone shipped with my MT-28 starter (explaining that gear reduction starters are equivalent to direct drive starters). It also claimed that small-opening starters were equivalent to large-opening starters. But that nose is exactly what seems to be the problem. Shimming out the flywheel will put the teeth in the wrong place (so the starter won't be able to engage it). I really do need to make clearance appear via the starter motor.
My other (automatic) trucks have the large-opening starter in them.So...shall I grind the starter down like the poster of that thread did? I've not heard of a manual 24V truck, so I'm not sure I could buy a large-opening 24V starter. I'm not ready to rewire everything for 12V at this point.
@Richcz28, did you have a similar problem when you swapped trannys?
@diesel4me, thanks a bunch for looking that up. I hadn't even started thinking about the problem yet, and here you already have a good piece of the solution. Your willingness to help out is really neat.
We'll get this truck running yet.
It's reading posts like this that prevents me from putting in anything different than whats in my trucks now..
I'd like a 5 speed manual,but the amount of headaches you suffer to get one is too much for me to deal with any more...
I used to like ripping things apart,and stuff in a 454 or put an Sm465 in a formerly automatic truck,but looking back,its a young man's game,and I'm not that young and spry any more..my older brother has done a lot more than I have as far as swaps and upgrades,and he now says "It's hard enough putting back what belongs there "...sadly I have to agree...
I don't mind "helping",but all I did was type a number on google,and read what popped up..no biggie!..glad it might be of some aid to your dilema...just think how much it sucked before the internet !--we had to ask everyone we ran into if they had done this or that,and how did they get around the snags...today its almost too easy to find "that guy" that did just what your wanting to do--and you avoid all the pitfalls by reading his experiences online..
I'd like a 5 speed manual,but the amount of headaches you suffer to get one is too much for me to deal with any more...
I used to like ripping things apart,and stuff in a 454 or put an Sm465 in a formerly automatic truck,but looking back,its a young man's game,and I'm not that young and spry any more..my older brother has done a lot more than I have as far as swaps and upgrades,and he now says "It's hard enough putting back what belongs there "...sadly I have to agree...
I don't mind "helping",but all I did was type a number on google,and read what popped up..no biggie!..glad it might be of some aid to your dilema...just think how much it sucked before the internet !--we had to ask everyone we ran into if they had done this or that,and how did they get around the snags...today its almost too easy to find "that guy" that did just what your wanting to do--and you avoid all the pitfalls by reading his experiences online..
I do see why people spend so many hours and dollars building shops. They are so nice. The sandy floor of this barn is infectious. It seems to get everywhere. Here's hoping for a clean and uncontaminated tail shaft. And oil pan. And differential housings (x2). And a hundred other places the sand wants to go.
So it's safe to say this build is stretching my abilities. If you would have told last year's version of me that he'd be rebuilding the truck in a sandbox, he probably would have laughed at the absurdity of picking that location. But here I am. Learning a lot every day. Lotta firsts in this build (which is how it should be), but the biggest is the auto-->stick conversion. I planned out this swap when Big Blue blew its tranny, but some well-meaning people talked me out of it. It didn't take long for me to wish I had stuck with the plan back then. This conversion is costing a fraction of what the rebuild cost, and I think I'll enjoy the end product a whole lot more. We'll see.
Would a piece of plywood on the floor help with moving the trans jack?
I'd totally do the plywood thing, a couple of sheets of 5/8" T&G would be a huge help!
I am using a piece of plywood, but it's still interesting.
The ground (not really a floor) is far from being flat. The wheels are fairly level, but underneath the tranny there is a low spot. So the jack wants to roll toward the front of the truck. That's good for getting it assembled, right? 
But it's a lot funner than trying to roll through loose sand.
If you look at the pictures of changing the tire I have a board underneath the jack there, too. Otherwise it would just bury the jack in the sandbox. This stuff is interesting. It's a lot nicer than wet clay/mud, though.
For the Suburban I did the rear axle swap on a muddy floor and the front hub swap outside in the rain. So it could definitely be worse.
It might have been no biggie to you, but it's a biggie to me. I didn't have time to look that up this week, so the project was going to get pushed back until I did. You have given me the last piece I needed to have in order to be comfortable moving forward again. The pieces mesh with what I see and what I have heard. I will probably try grinding down my starter before I try purchasing another one (not sure if I can find a 24V open nose, but I'm not yet convinced I wanna switch to 12V). And I have an oil seal to replace first. And I still don't know where to find a new cam plug.
But you have solved the big problem, so the build is moving forward again.
Your welcome...hope the info is correct,thats all...
Oh yeah--that camshaft expansion plug is 2-7/32"
--Dorman # is 555-081....fits 82-93 6.2..
Oh yeah--that camshaft expansion plug is 2-7/32"
--Dorman # is 555-081....fits 82-93 6.2..
Now yer just showing off... 
Believe it or not, I built my Big Blue truck in 2010 without any internet input. I started with a broken truck, a junkyard with a few talkative tinkerers, and the remains of a rotted-out '67 C10 trailer. I built a step-side bed because the local yard happened to have a pretty nice looking '82 C20 step-side long bed (painted your shade of maroon). Since that was the only non-rusty bed I could find, I started with that and added pieces until I was happy with it. Some things required multiple tries, as I didn't have anyone steering me clear of the pitfalls. But it was a "one piece at a time" build. A dear family member told me it was the ugliest truck he'd ever seen. While I didn't think it was THAT bad, it was quite an extensive project to get it looking nice. Each of the rockers has a baseball-sized hole at the back, and I left them there to remind myself of how far the truck has come. It's a totally different truck now, and the seller (who wanted to cut it up for scrap) has expressed some remorse at parting with the truck. Somehow I've managed to lose track of just about all the pictures, but I still have this one:
Having CK5 access back then would have made some things simpler, for sure. I had to teach myself (from actual BOOKS!) how to handle a loss of fuel priming. And I have a botched wiring fix for my fuel gauge that's still messed up. CK5 probably would have prevented that one. No way would I have installed another 10-bolt when the rear G80 blew if I had understood their service history. And (of course), the folks would have tried to talk me into making an offroad truck instead of a practical street truck. So I'm really happy that it turned out this way. That being said, I probably would have gone ahead with the stick-shift swap, and would have solved these headaches already.
So if I could just transplant a little bit of knowledge back to 2010 and 2011, I could have been far better off today.
Trivia bit:
Here is a picture of the rotten trailer (no bed floor or support, just the box falling off the frame). Who recognizes the other vehicles in the lineup?
Or here's a different year (with a different mix of cars). That trailer sat for a loooong time before getting reused. The frame is still sitting until someone comes up with a use for it.
Closeup on the back end. I wish I could find the actual pictures of digging it out for this project. But its condition wasn't noticeably different.
Here is a picture of the rotten trailer (no bed floor or support, just the box falling off the frame). Who recognizes the other vehicles in the lineup?
Or here's a different year (with a different mix of cars). That trailer sat for a loooong time before getting reused. The frame is still sitting until someone comes up with a use for it.
Closeup on the back end. I wish I could find the actual pictures of digging it out for this project. But its condition wasn't noticeably different.
Your welcome...hope the info is correct,thats all...
Oh yeah--that camshaft expansion plug is 2-7/32"
--Dorman # is 555-081....fits 82-93 6.2..
Looks like I hafta order 10 of them at a time. Anybody want one? or five?
Yeah,RockAuto sells them in boxes of ten--58 cents each,= $5.80...
You might find a NAPA or other parts jobber that has an open box of them that will sell one singly...ones with an auto machine shop would be most likely to have them available without "special ordering" them in..
I hate it when they sell things in full box quantities--like spark plugs--in order for me to get a "special" spark plug for something like a Honda I had,etc,I'd have to pay for a box of 10,because the parts store didn't want the other 9 collecting dust for decades...it was either buy ten from them,or go to the nearest Honda dealer (20 miles away !)-and pay almost as much for 2 crappy NGK plugs...
You might find a NAPA or other parts jobber that has an open box of them that will sell one singly...ones with an auto machine shop would be most likely to have them available without "special ordering" them in..
I hate it when they sell things in full box quantities--like spark plugs--in order for me to get a "special" spark plug for something like a Honda I had,etc,I'd have to pay for a box of 10,because the parts store didn't want the other 9 collecting dust for decades...it was either buy ten from them,or go to the nearest Honda dealer (20 miles away !)-and pay almost as much for 2 crappy NGK plugs...
Believe it or not, I built my Big Blue truck in 2010 without any internet input. I started with a broken truck, a junkyard with a few talkative tinkerers, and the remains of a rotted-out '67 C10 trailer. I built a step-side bed because the local yard happened to have a pretty nice looking '82 C20 step-side long bed (painted your shade of maroon). Since that was the only non-rusty bed I could find, I started with that and added pieces until I was happy with it. Some things required multiple tries, as I didn't have anyone steering me clear of the pitfalls. But it was a "one piece at a time" build. A dear family member told me it was the ugliest truck he'd ever seen. While I didn't think it was THAT bad, it was quite an extensive project to get it looking nice. Each of the rockers has a baseball-sized hole at the back, and I left them there to remind myself of how far the truck has come. It's a totally different truck now, and the seller (who wanted to cut it up for scrap) has expressed some remorse at parting with the truck. Somehow I've managed to lose track of just about all the pictures, but I still have this one:
Having CK5 access back then would have made some things simpler, for sure. I had to teach myself (from actual BOOKS!) how to handle a loss of fuel priming. And I have a botched wiring fix for my fuel gauge that's still messed up. CK5 probably would have prevented that one. No way would I have installed another 10-bolt when the rear G80 blew if I had understood their service history. And (of course), the folks would have tried to talk me into making an offroad truck instead of a practical street truck. So I'm really happy that it turned out this way. That being said, I probably would have gone ahead with the stick-shift swap, and would have solved these headaches already.
So if I could just transplant a little bit of knowledge back to 2010 and 2011, I could have been far better off today.
Yeah,I had to feel my way along,guided by books,advice from others who'd "done that before" and it was a lot harder in the old days to fix things--today we're rather spoiled,with the web we can seek out and find info from others who have done what your attempting too,and you learn from their mistakes and gain valuable knowledge ..it does make things a lot easier...
Plugs are already ordered. I have no plans for the other 9.
FWIW, shipping costs brought rockauto's price up to almost exactly $15. I thought that was steep, and ebay rewarded my searching time with a box of 10 for $3.14 shipped. No complaints here. But I have no present use for the extras.
Yeah. I knew ZERO people who fixed up old trucks, and even now (outside of CK5), I have met very few people who understand the project. I didn't know how it was going to turn out, I just knew that I was going to have a fun time with it.
Same for this tranny swap. I didn't know I was gonna hit a snag (though clearly the knowledge is out there), I simply started throwing parts at it until I hit an obstacle. Having figured out a way around this one, the build will proceed. When the weather warms up again, of course.
