The Green Grendel

[campfire]

My 6.2 was manual tranny when I got it. I never had any issues with anything hitting. The only thing I can think of is the dowel hole hanging on the dowel a little?

But I torqued the bolts up to their 65 ft-lb torque spec. Surely it would be seated properly at that point.

Also, the dowel is close to the 9 o'clock position, so it wouldn't be causing the top to touch if it was snagging. There was no interference anywhere else around the circle.

 

[tRustyK5]

It's definitely easier without the flywheel bolted on. No brainer...and it's how/when I did mine. I had mine all apart bolting in an NV4500. I have no idea on that cam plug, but it looks like a freeze plug. I'd hope there is some room behind it so it can be punched in on one side same way you replace a freeze plug.

 

[tRustyK5]

But I torqued the bolts up to their 65 ft-lb torque spec. Surely it would be seated properly at that point.

Also, the dowel is close to the 9 o'clock position, so it wouldn't be causing the top to touch if it was snagging. There was no interference anywhere else around the circle.

Exaggerate the problem in your mind. Imagine there being 1/4" gap where the dowel is. The flywheel would pivot on the dowel, and a point 180 degrees opposite.

If it didn't seat 100% due to a burr it could easily be enough to cause your problem. Torquing the bolts doesn't guarantee the flywheel got pulled flat to the back of the crank.

 

[diesel4me]

I'd try sanding or wire wheeling all the crud off the crank mounting flange and try mounting the flywheel again..one piece of dirt,rust,etc, could get pinched between the two,or a burr on the flywheel or flange and make it not seat flat 100%..
Do both flywheels do this ?..if not perhaps one is tweaked and not 100% warp free..

If that fails I don't know what to tell you--I suppose you could grind a few thousandths off the boss where its rubbing,or add a shim or two behind the flywheel,which may require special longer bolts..

 

[diesel4me]

You can use a self tapping metal screw or dent puller to remove that freeze plug..I'd avoid trying to drive it in further ,it might contact the camshaft,despite the 6.2 having a forged cam it might just be brittle enough to get damaged should a hammer blow shove it forward..

I always used Permatex Indian Head Gasket Shellac or the non hardening #2 "bear tar" sealer on freeze plugs..
I tried RTV on a few engines,one had a plug work its way out later on,and I think the RTV encouraged the freeze plugs to corrode,the galvanized coating turned rusty quickly....none failed,but I never trusted them really either!..
You definately dont want the freeze plugs behind the flywheel to give grief later on..

 

[campfire]

If it didn't seat 100% due to a burr it could easily be enough to cause your problem. Torquing the bolts doesn't guarantee the flywheel got pulled flat to the back of the crank.

That seems quite possible. It wouldn't take much. How easily should it slide on and off? The flexplate required gentle prying to get it off of the center hub. The flywheel required more prying that I was comfortable with. Not a huge amount, but I was surprised, as I don't remember running into this in the past. The last one that I did slid right on without any interference fit (but that was a very different engine architecture).

Exaggerate the problem in your mind. Imagine there being 1/4" gap where the dowel is. The flywheel would pivot on the dowel, and a point 180 degrees opposite.

180* opposite the dowel is pointed roughly at the starter. The point of interference is about 90* removed from the dowel. So it should be the one point that doesn't change if it were tilted. I will start by looking for a burr at the 6 o'clock position.

 

[campfire]

Do both flywheels do this ?..if not perhaps one is tweaked and not 100% warp free..

If I don't find a burr, I'll check this and get back to ya. Both flywheels are used, so I have no guarantees that either of them are flat (though I can't visually see any warping). Both were bought off of CK5 members who pulled them off of engines they bought. I don't think either of them claimed to have driven either one.

But I think a burr is a much more likely answer than tweaking. It would have to be quite tweaked to hit that boss, and I think it would be visually obvious if it was that bad.

 

[campfire]

You can use a self tapping metal screw or dent puller to remove that freeze plug..I'd avoid trying to drive it in further ,it might contact the camshaft,despite the 6.2 having a forged cam it might just be brittle enough to get damaged should a hammer blow shove it forward..

I always used Permatex Indian Head Gasket Shellac or the non hardening #2 "bear tar" sealer on freeze plugs..
I tried RTV on a few engines,one had a plug work its way out later on,and I think the RTV encouraged the freeze plugs to corrode,the galvanized coating turned rusty quickly....none failed,but I never trusted them really either!..
You definately dont want the freeze plugs behind the flywheel to give grief later on..

It doesn't look like a freeze plug, it looks like it is behind the cam. So water corrosion should not be an issue here. And it's clearly oil that is seeping out.

Dummy question...are these not reusable? Sounds like either of your suggestions will destroy the cap. Autozone does not list the part in their catalog, and Rockauto requires me to buy 10 at a time. Sounds silly for something that could be reused and resealed if I could get it out in reasonable shape. Not sure if that's possible or not.

 

[tRustyK5]

I've never had to mess with one of those...but it appears to be a press in plug. I can see it having to be there so the cam journal machining operation could be completed, then that hole gets plugged/capped.

Back to the flywheel, it shouldn't be a near press fit. It should slide over the hub and dowel easily enough as long as the flywheel is square to the crank.

 

[campfire]

I've never had to mess with one of those...

Back to the flywheel, it shouldn't be a near press fit. It should slide over the hub and dowel easily enough as long as the flywheel is square to the crank.

"Near press fit" is a good description. I'll go back out and give it a closer examination.

 

[campfire]

Also, taking off the 6 bolts holding the T/C onto the flex plate required 14MM, 15MM, and 5/8" sockets. The pattern of mismatching bolts continues. And, yes, one of the bolts was loose.

Not sure why anyone thinks that CUCV rigs got awesome high-quality mainatence. Everywhere I turn this truck has been improperly maintained or downright neglected.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

It depends where the CUCV was and the culture in the unuts responsible for it.

Yours probably came from a NG unit somewhere out in the middle of nowhere. The chances of it getting a redneckesque bubba fix vs a proper GM and US Mil fix would be much more likely there than say, at a big base with a professionally run maintenance shop or ten.

 

[campfire]

It depends where the CUCV was and the culture in the unuts responsible for it.

Yours probably came from a NG unit somewhere out in the middle of nowhere. The chances of it getting a redneckesque bubba fix vs a proper GM and US Mil fix would be much more likely there than say, at a big base with a professionally run maintenance shop or ten.

I don't doubt there were variations in how different rigs were treated. And I have no idea whether the shady maintenance is the work of the military or the P.O.

There are lots of what-ifs.

Ever since I unhooked that wire feeding unfused 12V into the fuse block (backwards), the lights mysteriously don't work. No idea why the wire was run that way, but I am tempted to put it back just to see if things start magically working again.

 

[campfire]

Did a bunch of things tonight, and I have pictures, too, so @82355 and @GWeakland620 will be happy.

First up, I installed the other flywheel and gave it a careful examination. It's a bit shinier than the other one.



(I did put all 6 bolts in, I just don't have a picture of it).

Rolled under the truck and found it was contacting the starter. Odd. I don't think it was doing that yesterday.



And clearance on the opposite side was reduced as well.




But it clearly left marks on both the flywheel and the starter nose.

 

[campfire]

I then tried the first flywheel again, and it turned out the same way.



Kindof a crummy picture, but it's showing exactly what the other one did. The flywheel is contacting the starter.



And clearance is reduced on the other side:





Confused, as I'm sure that I checked that clearance last night, I decided to test that cam boss with a makeshift feeler gauge. The boss is hard to see when the flywheel is in place (due to the body), so I had diagnosed the issue by feeling around the edge with my fingers, and that was the one spot that I couldn't feel a gap. So I decided to verify the feeler test with a better feeler gauge.







I was able to insert this piece of metal between the boss and the flywheel. They were not touching at this time. It was fairly close, but there was a little wiggle room, so it is probably fine.


The most likely answer is that I clunked the boss last night while installing the flywheel, and that is what transferred the paint, not an actual interference issue. And then somehow I missed the most obvious interference spot. I'm not quite convinced of this because I'm sure I checked that. But I have no other ideas.

 

[campfire]

Just as a sanity check, I reinstalled the flex plate.



It cleared the starter and had more clearance on the far side, too.






The good news here is that all this installing and removing appears to have smoothed out whatever interference the center hub had. I no longer hafta yank on a prybar to remove these.

 

[campfire]

So let's assume I missed the obvious last night, and the starter is the only problem here. What can I do about this? Shimming this starter moves it vertically, I don't see any way to move it further forward. I could try shimming the flywheel, as Rob suggested, but I'm not sure how this is done, nor how much shim I would want. It clearly works with the flex plate, but not with the flywheel. I find that odd.


Thoughts?

 

[campfire]

Then, having run out of ideas on that end of the engine, I turned my attention to the other pressing issue. Glow plugs.

Here is my box of Bosch Duraterm glow plugs. Which are conveniently sold in boxes with 10 plugs each. I cannot figure out why, as these plugs typically go in 6- or 8-cylinder engines. 10 seems like a useless packaging size. The other interesting thing is that this box has a unique serial number & 2D barcode.




Not only does the box have a unique serial number, each individual plug did as well.




If you go to the website listed, they will check your code and tell you if it's legit.

To guarantee the authenticity and integrity of Bosch products, selected Bosch packages are provided with authenticity seals. By inspecting the seals and entering a security code our partners and consumers may verify product authenticity at any time.

Just for grins, I did type in that code and received this message.

Congratulations! The Code you entered is correct. The quality verification is carried out in combination with the genuine Bosch Hologram

Sounds like a whole lot of work for them to set up a Microsoft-ish authentication scheme for a mass-produced good. But I can see why they're concerned with brand piracy.

It was a slight pain getting those paper boxes open. I wound up tearing the box in half rather than messing with the tamper-proof seals.

 

[campfire]

Measured the plugs. Six open circuits. One with 134 ohms (should be close to zero). One good one (~0.5 ohms)

So I pulled out the plugs. All were AC Delco 13G plugs, and they were all completely soaked in fuel.




This tells me that it was recently cranked without starting. But I already knew that.

The 13G plugs seem to be the same size as the 60G plugs. The Duraterms are longer on the outside but shorter on the inside. Not sure why. Also, the AC plugs are 3/8" head and the Bosch plugs are 10mm head.




I gotta say that I like having multiple vehicles with matching drive trains and similar maintenance issues. I remember doing plugs in the past, so it was very easy and straight forward. I even remembered which 2 sizes of deep-well socket to grab.

 

[campfire]

Much more salient is that this truck and its glow plugs were set up with narrower-than-standard spade lugs.

Is this a CUCV-only thing? I've seen it before, but I wasn't sure where. I was thinking it was common to some years of civilian trucks, so I took a short trip across the yard to check out my favorite step side. Enjoying it's frosty hibernation.





But it still has factory ends, and they aren't the narrow ones.




The Suburban was the same. Factory ends and not narrow. So...are the narrow ends a CUCV-only thing?