The Griz is Dead... 56k warning

[K5dreamer]

Hey ya'll, been a long time. Ya might remember the griz was involved in a traffic accident last year, hit a jersey wall at 35mph in the snow, well... its been sitting, radiator sprung a leak, found out the frame is tweaked, body damage is pretty significant, and as an added kick to the balls, it has now developed an electrical problem. ive finally accepted its too big a project for me to handle.

So, ive decided to shop around and find a different truck and swap the engine and hydroboost brake system over (nice small project ).

found what seems to be a real nice 1970 with no engine or trans.

So the question is, anything in particular i should be looking at on these first gen models? seems to have already had a good bit of work done, both rockers replaced, both floorboards replaced, side trim removed and holes welded up and smoothed. He did describe what i think was the passenger side "rocker box" that was rotted and cut out, but the driver side was still intact. has new fuel tank still in the box, lots of weatherseals, new power steering pump, new body bushings, and a "double wall" top. he says the only thing missing are the engine and trans. has a NP205 TC, driveshafts, and axles, rims, tires, etc. all wiring should be intact. its missing the steering wheel and front bumper.

 

[bp71k5]

Id be careful of anyone who says they replaced one rotted out rocker but not the other. In addition, the outer rocker is usually only the tip of the ice berg for rust damage. If he only replaced the outer, the inner will still be a mess.


-Brian

 

[K5dreamer]

Id be careful of anyone who says they replaced one rotted out rocker but not the other. In addition, the outer rocker is usually only the tip of the ice berg for rust damage. If he only replaced the outer, the inner will still be a mess.


-Brian

the inner rocker is a sealed box correct? so the only way to "check" it would be to tap on it with a screwdriver and see if it punches through right?

 

[bp71k5]

the inner rocker is a sealed box correct? so the only way to "check" it would be to tap on it with a screwdriver and see if it punches through right?

Not a sealed box, but unless the guy guarantees he replaced it properly and has some pictures to prove it, you can assume its rotted away underneath. Its a ton of work to fix right, and if he did repair it, he'll be ultra proud to prove it.


-Brian

 

[Z71paramedic]

Not a sealed box, but unless the guy guarantees he replaced it properly and has some pictures to prove it, you can assume its rotted away underneath. Its a ton of work to fix right, and if he did repair it, he'll be ultra proud to prove it.


-Brian

X's a million! You can also climb under the truck and look REALLY carefully at the area where the front fenders meet the body. But you can't alwas see the extent of everything from there. The rocker box end caps will unbolt as well and you can look inside with a flashlight. Hope that helps.

 

[K5dreamer]

gotcha, he did send some hi res shots, im pressed for time on my way to work, but ill have to re-up my membership and load up some pics when i get home tonight. gotta say, the truck LOOKS amazing except those rocker boxes. and the one "good" rocker box does seem to have a small hole towards the front where the bolts are (im assuming those are for the end cap that comes off). so if theres a small hole, based on what yall are sayin, its probably fubar.

so that begs the question, its a **** ton of work to fix right, and it would have to be fixed because those boxes provide structural support to the body because its a full convertable... right?

what about replacing the rocker boxes which are prone to holding water and debris and rotting out, with some welded in rock sliders? i think i read about someone on here doing that. is that an option? or do i have to fix it proper, aka the hard way.

 

[Z71paramedic]

It's definitely a good amount of work to say the least. I had originally planned on the ditching of the rocker boxes and running sliders that had risers up to the floor and tied into a cage but this was Greg's recommendation (which I trust because he's like the first gen guru...)

"Rocker box theory:

Since I was asked via PM to comment, here are some of my thoughts and philosophies on the subject.

If you are rebuilding a stock 1st Gen with no desire to add a roll cage, then the factory rocker boxes should be either restored/patched or replaced with a reproduction part. The body structure needs those to control sagging and torsional twisting forces.

Since most of us AREN'T doing stock restorations the question is always how to build a valid roll cage and how the torsion boxes should be dealt with during the build.

For all but the most extreme builds, my personal opinion is that the roll cage should be built within the interior space of the cab but not connected to the frame below. The cage would probably be a minimum of a 6-point design with good triangulation and could have the legs of the cage tied to each other close to the floor with additional bars and gussets. The idea is to create a strong perimeter frame that will encapsulate the interior occupants and will add extra structural strength to the cab while still allowing the use of stock body mounts in all of the factory locations. For a street driven truck, I can't see the value of bypassing or changing the function of the stock body mounts.... And with this type of cage you can leave the stock torsion box in place and not mess with it at all. You get a very stiff cab structure, a frame that can still twist, and body mounts are the effective isolator between those two systems.

Once you start trying to connect the cage to the frame, you need to either cut access holes into the torsion boxes or remove them completely. And once you start mixing a combination of body mounts with roll cage bushings it's anyone's guess whether they will work in harmony with each other or will fight each other and make the ride overly harsh and noisy.

Once you go to a full-on wheeler, the cage mounts solidly to the frame and prevents any torsional flex. The tradeoff is that all of the suspension, engine and driveline harshness get transmitted directly into the driver seat so the whole thing is a lot less pleasant to drive on the street."

as quoted from my build in the first gen section. Check it out for pics of cancer treatment of the area in question. I thought my truck was pretty nice when I bought it

 

[K5dreamer]

 

[K5dreamer]

asking price is $2000 OBO, and he "must sell" whatever that truly means. I figure i can work him down considerably from that figure, take out a larger than necessary car loan, which will cover the bits and pieces i need to rebuild the top end of the 6.2 i have and put the turbo on it, put an aftermarket offroad front bumper on it (missing factory one), and cover the "unforseen" expenses and most likely necessary bodywork. convert the 6.2 to a 12v system to work with the 1970 wiring setup, and have it driveable in a reasonable amount of time.

only kick in the pants is id have a set of lift springs to get rid of (6in to fit my 86 bodystyle) and replace, and figure out how to put my 1 tons and wheel/tire combo under the gen 1 body style without cutting up those pretty fenders.

 

[Z71paramedic]

It's wierd that the one rocker box is completely rotted out at the bottom but it does look pretty solid above that. I'd ask for a bunch more pics around the front, and/or go look it over yourself. The rocker boxes and end caps can be had for about $400, but when you need everything above it is when it turns into a real project.

 

[K5dreamer]

yeah, i showed the pics to my dad (who's driveway ill be allowed to use for a month to do the engine/trans swap) and he thought it looked promising enough to drive out and take a good look at. so i emailed the guy about going out next weekend to put my grubby hands on it.

hence where all the goldmine advice is going to come in handy.

 

[70jimmy]

Look at front floor boards and rear bed area near the tail gate and especially in front of the rear corners on the inside. Either its a dent in the right front fender or ripples from less than satisfactory body work. Look at the area between the front inner fenders and the firewall with a flashlight. Stick something long and rigid up there and bang around and see what falls out.

Also not a bad idea to look under the cowl area and the windshield frame under the weather stripping around the windshield. look really well at the floor around the inner fenders in the rear on the interior of the vehicle and where the fenders on the inside meet the inner bed sides.

 

[bp71k5]

The 6th pic of the rocker doesnt look like he redid the spot welds along the bottom.

It looks loke a decent truck if you have the time to put into it. Its more than a month though.


-Brian

 

[K5dreamer]

thanks all, keep em coming, ill be taking all advice and putting together a checklist to go over while im out there. Ill also be taking a magnet to look for bondo and other body work. luckily i still have some contacts in the body shop world from working at dealerships, so hopefully i can get most of the big stuff taken care of relatively painlessly. as for time, im actually working a 9-5 job again for the first time in well over a decade, so ive actually got a good level of spare time.

as to the month deadline, we havent ironed out a solid agreement, but as long as the griz is gone, and the new truck is running, that should be enough. the body work can be taken care of after the truck is running and inspected which with any luck i can get done in a month of working after work till i drop.

 

[bp71k5]

Swapping a diesel into a truck that never had one is gonna take more than a month. But give it a go!


-Brian

 

[K5dreamer]

Swapping a diesel into a truck that never had one is gonna take more than a month. But give it a go!
-Brian

Not trying to be argumentative, but what am I missing? the 6.2L was designed to use 350 mounts, and fit in the same place as a 350 small block, has minimal electrical demands, and the 1970 truck has minimal electronics, theres a new fuel tank that comes with the truck, ill be installing an electric fuel pump because the turbo oil drain uses the mechanical fuel pump location, exhaust should be a no brainer.... Im sure there are detail items that will have to be sorted out, but aside from that, am i missing something major? Colby had told me earlier the swap was pretty strait forward in his truck.

 

[bp71k5]

I dont know of anything specific your missing. Colbys truck was a 73 and this one is not so there are differences in frame rails and crossmembers.

Can you run with the stock 72 fuel tank that has no fuel return line? Do you need a new fuel filter sock
inside the tank?

How much of the wiring exists on the new one and how long will it take to figure out whats missing?

Are the axle gears setup ok to run with a diesel?

Those are just a few of the questions youll need to figure out within the next 30 days and I'm sure there will be lots more. It's just the nature of this stuff.


-Brian

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Enough people have put 6.2L's in 1st gens that if you look around someone will have a write up or be able to tell you about what to look out for.

Gears won't matter unless it has 4.56's and stock sized tires or something crazy deep. If I remember correctly he has 33's on his M1009 that would work for this. The 6.2L prefers a ratio about a "step higher" than a small block but will work fine with "the accepted norm" for a small block. I have 3.73's, a TH700R4, and a 33's and it gets along just fine. With 3.73's and 31's and 32's it always felt low geared. Now it's pretty good.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Also, in regards to the 6" lift springs...one of you first gen guys correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't modding them to use 73+ length springs a pretty common mod before the really flexy 52's/56's/63's/etc springs became more common?

 

[K5dreamer]

Also, in regards to the 6" lift springs...one of you first gen guys correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't modding them to use 73+ length springs a pretty common mod before the really flexy 52's/56's/63's/etc springs became more common?

if this is true.... i owe you a six pack. to the search function!