CK5
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I was not expecting to find bearing damage this time since I never saw zero oil pressure. Maybe there is a delay in the Holley dash? I was watching the gauge as well, but I didn't catch what it read before I shut the truck off. The physical gauge is measuring pressure at the pump discharge, the Holley is in the normal location at the end of the oil galley. They generally read about 5psi difference.
Is there any damping programmed in?
I'm not at all sure what you're asking.
From the years I had to deal with any engine from small engines to big rig and stationary generator, if you get hot for any reason other than complete loss of oil, you back of and let idle for a bit to cool down a bit before you shut down.
It's a real big deal with turbos on big rigs after hard pulls, the reason is exactly as your buddy suggested, too hot with no oil in between the bearings and they seize.
That's my 2 cents
In the holley dash, for the oil pressure sensor, do you have the ability to program update rates? Damping, or smoothing, or averaging updates per second. Just responding to your 'holley dash delay' comment. If it's got alot of programmed damping it will probably smooth out any cavitation or quick loss of pressure that may be occurring.
Thanks for the explanation, I can go check, but I didn't program anything special into the gauge when I set it up. It's just a digital readout with the pressure. The only gauge I played with those settings on is my fuel level, because that one used to bounce all over the place.
The first time it lost pressure (actually went to zero), I didn't shut it off until I got to the stop light and it didn't have this much damage. I thought I was helping by shutting it down right away, live and learn, too bad these lessons are really expensive...
That’s what Heath had me do on mine.
Yeah I break in the same way.
Not 2/3 throttle 6k pulls, but 20 to 50mph rolling accel and decell. 1/2 throttle max and little to no brake.
Last thing I do is shut engine off. pbrake, seat belt off, roll windows up or crack them, sunshade, open door shut off engine. Turbo or no.
Thinking here the oil pan capacity and windage tray are teaming up to starve the pick up.
Maybe a few extra holes on tray with the 8 quart pan.
Back in the day 428scj Super Stock racers added an extra quart while drag racing. The launch would starve the pick up, without the extra quart
Not 2/3 throttle 6k pulls, but 20 to 50mph rolling accel and decell. 1/2 throttle max and little to no brake.
Last thing I do is shut engine off. pbrake, seat belt off, roll windows up or crack them, sunshade, open door shut off engine. Turbo or no.
Thinking here the oil pan capacity and windage tray are teaming up to starve the pick up.
Maybe a few extra holes on tray with the 8 quart pan.
Back in the day 428scj Super Stock racers added an extra quart while drag racing. The launch would starve the pick up, without the extra quart
Danger to manifold?
It’s to early for my brain to really comprehend what you were saying, I’ll give it a bit but I believe you can do what your saying.Lol. I actually had to google that to figure out what it meant.
The truck is going back together, we got all the bearings on Saturday, engine was back together and in the truck yesterday, as was the transmission and supercharger. We've got a few things to button up, but we're honestly not looking forward to testing it anymore. This is the last shot for this engine, if it doesn't work, it's coming out and the 6.slow is going in. We're beyond frustrated, the budget has been sh*t all over, and the last failure just seemed like a personal attack.
Instead of searching for "how to install cam bearings in a Dart SHP LS Pro block" if you search for "Don't line up the bearings in a dart LS block", you actually get some results. I think the previous search term would have worked on old google, but new AI searching sucks balls.
I also found some information about how Dart recommends a low flow pump for their engines that have priority main oiling. I think someone mentioned that in this thread, but I couldn't find the comment when I looked back through. The pump they recommend is 15% reduced flow over stock, this is to reduce oil windage with the more efficient oil flow.
We also re-measured oil pickup tube height and realized that we may have had more clearance than we originally thought. I didn't realize that the back sump on the pan is tilted forward, the oil pickup is at the front. I think we were closer to 1/2" of clearance than the 5/16-3/8" I thought we had. Either way, it's not too close. If 1/8" difference is the amount needed to prevent oil starvation, that's too close of a margin.
We'll probably finish putting it together today, but we're lacking motivation. We're going to a friends house to make pizza tonight, so I made some fresh mozzarella this morning and I'm procrastinating getting back out into the shop by posting this.
Instead of searching for "how to install cam bearings in a Dart SHP LS Pro block" if you search for "Don't line up the bearings in a dart LS block", you actually get some results. I think the previous search term would have worked on old google, but new AI searching sucks balls.
I also found some information about how Dart recommends a low flow pump for their engines that have priority main oiling. I think someone mentioned that in this thread, but I couldn't find the comment when I looked back through. The pump they recommend is 15% reduced flow over stock, this is to reduce oil windage with the more efficient oil flow.
We also re-measured oil pickup tube height and realized that we may have had more clearance than we originally thought. I didn't realize that the back sump on the pan is tilted forward, the oil pickup is at the front. I think we were closer to 1/2" of clearance than the 5/16-3/8" I thought we had. Either way, it's not too close. If 1/8" difference is the amount needed to prevent oil starvation, that's too close of a margin.
We'll probably finish putting it together today, but we're lacking motivation. We're going to a friends house to make pizza tonight, so I made some fresh mozzarella this morning and I'm procrastinating getting back out into the shop by posting this.
So as I was thinking that by you putting the higher volume oil pump to feed more at high RPM you helped starve it too fast because it was already optimized with a low volume pump.
I don't think the 1/2" made a difference, and I am sure the windage tray with a low volume oil pump would be fine.
I didn't make any comments because I am not an engine expert or a mechanical engineer, but I do have some engineer training and some experience and now you confirmed my theory
To be clear, this is the same model/flow/pressure pump that Smeding installed originally. I did not change anything there, it is also the pump that is still installed (without the windage tray). Smeding did not think that the windage tray had anything to do with the issue. I took it out to put the internals back to the way they were when the engine was delivered from Smeding other than the oil pump cover (they forgot to bolt it back on).
My new oil pan will be here Thursday. I'm hoping to finish the break in with this setup, then swap the pan and get the remote oil filter and cooler figured out. That should put me at about 8 quarts total capacity I'm guessing.
I forgot to mention, my tuner recommended smoking the oil line once I had the engine mostly together to make sure there were no leaks in the system (missing plug etc.). We double checked all the Dart info about what oil plugs need to be where and pressurized the oil system with smoke. It came out where you'd expect (mains, rods, and cam0 but didn't make it through the lifters and pushrods. It's pretty low pressure so I didn't expect it to be able to blow past all the assembly lube.
We also pressure fed the system through the 12AN hole at the front of the block (just after the pump). We put 2 quarts through, which was enough to see it bubble up through all 16 pushrods.
We also pressure fed the system through the 12AN hole at the front of the block (just after the pump). We put 2 quarts through, which was enough to see it bubble up through all 16 pushrods.
Fingers crossed it works this time, sucks to hear about budget getting blown out. Mine is shot this year as well. That’s ok, I have plenty to do while I wait on boost.
I just had to look up how to make mozzarella, easier than I thought. Do you guys use a pizza oven or just a steel in the oven? Wasn’t to thrilled about a stone, thinking a steel is the way to go.
I just had to look up how to make mozzarella, easier than I thought. Do you guys use a pizza oven or just a steel in the oven? Wasn’t to thrilled about a stone, thinking a steel is the way to go.
There was a writeup on it in the paper copy I remembered reading. Here's the headline advertisement. Funny I remembered reading this article from 2018 but forgot my wallet a few times this weekend.
Searching for it in google took some damn work though.
Fingers crossed the engine is gtg this time. Optimism my man!
