Yes very nice clean build
CK5
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The Story Of A Cummins Suburban (Lots Of Pics)
- Thread starter mosesburb
- Start date
wackojacko85
Registered Member
Re:
I'm enjoying this build up, keep it up!
I'm enjoying this build up, keep it up!
So when do we get a video of this thing runnin'? 
lectric80
3/4 ton status
It took some time to read through this thing, but it is one bad Burb! Subscribed to see it continue.
Thanks guys. In my mind, form follows function, but I think that a well thought out funtion can end up looking reasonably decent.
Progress has been occurring lately, but I have not shown any pics to prove it. I pulled my temporary "bellhousing crossmember" out amd installed the empty transmission and transfer case to see what was going to work or, in my case, not work. I figured doing this part with empty components would be better seeing as how I can't lift either component when they are loaded with more iron. The components actually fit fairly well. I did have to modify the floor pan a bit to get them up high enough. I had a cutoff of a 4 x 14 glue-lam that I put on my floor jack and ran up into the floor behind the trans hump. I applied some upward force to it, then I got inside with a heavy rubber hammer and beat the outer edges of the former flat area down to form a nice raised section behind the hump to produce a very factory appearing raised area. Directly behind the hump and in front of my modification is a very low valley. This had to go. I cut it out then I laid some sheet metal over the hole and formed it to make an extended trans hump. I welded it to the removable hump and screwed it to the floor behind the hole so the hump could be removed if necessary. All this resulted in me being able to install the trans and case fairly level in the chassis.
A little side note about the transfer case. I had been searching everywhere for a round pattern '205 to no avail. I had found an empty, NOS housing on ebay and I emailed the seller to find out what shipping would be, then went out in the shop to get some more work done. Well, in the mean time, my wife and boy got home. I realized that they had been home awhile and my boy had not come out in the shop yet. Hmmm, what is he doing?? So I go in the house, walk past the computer room and HOLY COW!!!! There are a bazillion error messages on the screen and my boy is sitting in front of it.
I figure I should try to undo whatever he got into. I start closing the error messages and get into a whole bunch of ebay messages stating something to the effect of: "Sorry the item you wanted to buy now has already been sold" Cool, I really did not want any....Dana 60 knuckles for a Ford. I close about twenty of these message windows and come to the last one that states "Congratulations, you won this item!!" Oh no!! What did you just buy me?!? It turns out, he clicked the buy it now button on the NOS round pattern housing. Well, I hope shipping isn't too much there boy. Turns out the shipping wasn't too bad, but the case was a bit higher than I would have liked to paid. Oh well, I have it now.
So with my floor modified, it was time to start assembling the components.
Mainshaft stack-up:
Major parts in:
South Bend clutch and Advance Adapters bellhousing installed:
I tried a couple factory crossmembers that did not work--of course. So I ended up making my own with two pices of 1" round tubing and plated with 1/4" flat plate. The part the trans mount bolts to is what is left of a piece of 2 x 3 .188 wall tubing cut to fit the angle the crossmember sits at.
Here is an installed pic:
Somewhere in amongst all this, I built the exhaust system. It is a 3.5" mandrel bent system. I got some straight pipe and 180* U-bends and went to town. It turned out pretty good. I wish I could have found some smaller radius bends than I had, so the little "pie" cuts would have had some more curve to them. They look like little pieces of straight pipe when they are installed. Hell, I probably should have just made them out of straight pipe--it would have been alot easier than cutting a specific size piece out of a bent pipe.
While I was making the system, I decided to punish myself a bit more and make one section of it twice--one witha muffler and one without. That way I can remove the muffler and offend at will whenever I feel like it. The sections look different, but they are actually the same as one is standing straight up and the other is leaning against the wall.
Someone mentioned exhaust pipe clearance around the transfer case. I ended up with about 1.5" above and below in this pic (although it does not show it too well).
In my initial plan, I was going to need a two piece drive shaft due to length. Well, as it worked out, I had to run a one piece because I had a lot less room than I initially thought I would have. No biggie, other than I had bought a super-nice two piece shaft out of a late model. I really did not want to scrap this shaft so I found the driveshaft company that I have used for the past 18-20 years. They had moved, but I located them and one of the guys still worked there. I explained what I wanted to do and he said it could be done. What I had him do was take the front half of the two piece, swap it end-for-end, knock the carrier bearing off and machine the ends so it could be re-tubed with the heavier .083 tubing. It worked out perfect and he said the factory Spicer u-joints were still in great shape, so he left them in rather than selling me new ones.
Here is what I ended up with:
Here is a close-up of the slip joint. The inner race of the carrier bearing had to be left on for the slip joint bootie to fit correctly. It is a sealed bootie, so no dust/mud will be able to enter.
So, some of you keeping score at home may have realized that the necessary components required for this yard ornament to move under its own power are present. Now, for legal reasons, I can't say that it has been driven even around the block once [cough] or six times [/cough], but if I had I bet it would have ridden pretty damn rough for the first lap with those tires being so flat-spotted. The second lap probably would have found the tires to be more round and be able to feel out the vehicle a bit better. The third through sixth laps, I would assume, would have been very enjoyable with a contest between me and my boy to see who could fit a bigger smile on their face and knowing my boy, he would have asked to go fast again. Now of course the interior is basically missing, with the seats sturdily retained by the awesome power of gravity and there are a pile of seatbelts in there, so it would have been wise to stay in the immediate vicinity of my house, never leaving the nighborhood and never going past third gear, but I would never do such a thing......
Can we go around one more time dad?? Uh,..........OK!!!!
Progress has been occurring lately, but I have not shown any pics to prove it. I pulled my temporary "bellhousing crossmember" out amd installed the empty transmission and transfer case to see what was going to work or, in my case, not work. I figured doing this part with empty components would be better seeing as how I can't lift either component when they are loaded with more iron. The components actually fit fairly well. I did have to modify the floor pan a bit to get them up high enough. I had a cutoff of a 4 x 14 glue-lam that I put on my floor jack and ran up into the floor behind the trans hump. I applied some upward force to it, then I got inside with a heavy rubber hammer and beat the outer edges of the former flat area down to form a nice raised section behind the hump to produce a very factory appearing raised area. Directly behind the hump and in front of my modification is a very low valley. This had to go. I cut it out then I laid some sheet metal over the hole and formed it to make an extended trans hump. I welded it to the removable hump and screwed it to the floor behind the hole so the hump could be removed if necessary. All this resulted in me being able to install the trans and case fairly level in the chassis.
A little side note about the transfer case. I had been searching everywhere for a round pattern '205 to no avail. I had found an empty, NOS housing on ebay and I emailed the seller to find out what shipping would be, then went out in the shop to get some more work done. Well, in the mean time, my wife and boy got home. I realized that they had been home awhile and my boy had not come out in the shop yet. Hmmm, what is he doing?? So I go in the house, walk past the computer room and HOLY COW!!!! There are a bazillion error messages on the screen and my boy is sitting in front of it.
I figure I should try to undo whatever he got into. I start closing the error messages and get into a whole bunch of ebay messages stating something to the effect of: "Sorry the item you wanted to buy now has already been sold" Cool, I really did not want any....Dana 60 knuckles for a Ford. I close about twenty of these message windows and come to the last one that states "Congratulations, you won this item!!" Oh no!! What did you just buy me?!? It turns out, he clicked the buy it now button on the NOS round pattern housing. Well, I hope shipping isn't too much there boy. Turns out the shipping wasn't too bad, but the case was a bit higher than I would have liked to paid. Oh well, I have it now.
So with my floor modified, it was time to start assembling the components.
Mainshaft stack-up:
Major parts in:
South Bend clutch and Advance Adapters bellhousing installed:
I tried a couple factory crossmembers that did not work--of course. So I ended up making my own with two pices of 1" round tubing and plated with 1/4" flat plate. The part the trans mount bolts to is what is left of a piece of 2 x 3 .188 wall tubing cut to fit the angle the crossmember sits at.
Here is an installed pic:
Somewhere in amongst all this, I built the exhaust system. It is a 3.5" mandrel bent system. I got some straight pipe and 180* U-bends and went to town. It turned out pretty good. I wish I could have found some smaller radius bends than I had, so the little "pie" cuts would have had some more curve to them. They look like little pieces of straight pipe when they are installed. Hell, I probably should have just made them out of straight pipe--it would have been alot easier than cutting a specific size piece out of a bent pipe.
While I was making the system, I decided to punish myself a bit more and make one section of it twice--one witha muffler and one without. That way I can remove the muffler and offend at will whenever I feel like it. The sections look different, but they are actually the same as one is standing straight up and the other is leaning against the wall.
Someone mentioned exhaust pipe clearance around the transfer case. I ended up with about 1.5" above and below in this pic (although it does not show it too well).
In my initial plan, I was going to need a two piece drive shaft due to length. Well, as it worked out, I had to run a one piece because I had a lot less room than I initially thought I would have. No biggie, other than I had bought a super-nice two piece shaft out of a late model. I really did not want to scrap this shaft so I found the driveshaft company that I have used for the past 18-20 years. They had moved, but I located them and one of the guys still worked there. I explained what I wanted to do and he said it could be done. What I had him do was take the front half of the two piece, swap it end-for-end, knock the carrier bearing off and machine the ends so it could be re-tubed with the heavier .083 tubing. It worked out perfect and he said the factory Spicer u-joints were still in great shape, so he left them in rather than selling me new ones.
Here is what I ended up with:
Here is a close-up of the slip joint. The inner race of the carrier bearing had to be left on for the slip joint bootie to fit correctly. It is a sealed bootie, so no dust/mud will be able to enter.
So, some of you keeping score at home may have realized that the necessary components required for this yard ornament to move under its own power are present. Now, for legal reasons, I can't say that it has been driven even around the block once [cough] or six times [/cough], but if I had I bet it would have ridden pretty damn rough for the first lap with those tires being so flat-spotted. The second lap probably would have found the tires to be more round and be able to feel out the vehicle a bit better. The third through sixth laps, I would assume, would have been very enjoyable with a contest between me and my boy to see who could fit a bigger smile on their face and knowing my boy, he would have asked to go fast again. Now of course the interior is basically missing, with the seats sturdily retained by the awesome power of gravity and there are a pile of seatbelts in there, so it would have been wise to stay in the immediate vicinity of my house, never leaving the nighborhood and never going past third gear, but I would never do such a thing......
Can we go around one more time dad?? Uh,..........OK!!!!
very exciting!
now you've got an excuse for expensive parts showing up at your door!
thanks for posting the clearance pics of exhaust and tcase for me.
did you end up using a 32 spline gm output shaft in the nv4500?
now you've got an excuse for expensive parts showing up at your door!
thanks for posting the clearance pics of exhaust and tcase for me.
did you end up using a 32 spline gm output shaft in the nv4500?
that is a sexy 205 
So how much did you spend on that empty NP205 case?
jimbug
1/2 ton status
Well congrats on getting the giant yard ornament moving under #2 power!
I bet the wife is happy to be able to see the lawn.....
I bet the wife is happy to be able to see the lawn.....
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
OD doesn't need to be strengthened.....the nut needs help to not get backed off and let the 5th gear freewheel on the shaft. the best fix is a fully splined aftermarket mainshaft. but there are aftermarket nuts that usually work. fixed mine with a pinchnut, a ton of red locktite, and a couple tack welds.
Yukon Jack
1/2 ton status
Had a good laugh about your E-bay incident - that's a good one! Congrats on your first drive(s) - they are always awfully exciting!
sorry i should have been more specific. i was wondering if mosesburb had strengthened his od like demon44 strengthened his or some other way. (thanks for explaining your solution demon44, sounds like a good cheap fix)
i was thinking about trying this when the time comes.
http://www.quad4x4.com/NV4500 5th Gear Failures and Solutions.htm#Nut_Woes
sorry about the hijack
i was thinking about trying this when the time comes.
http://www.quad4x4.com/NV4500 5th Gear Failures and Solutions.htm#Nut_Woes
sorry about the hijack
Yes, I used the GM 32spl output. I converted the front to the Dodge HD input. I had to have the input bearing retainer pilot od machined down to fit in the GM case. Both trans use the same input bearing, but the Dodge has a heavier collar around it.
that is a sexy 205
Thanks!! I had to build it on the ground under the front of the truck because I knew once I got it built, there was no way I was going to be able to pick it up off the bench and carry it out of the shop. Funny side note: I HAD to build the NV4500 on the bench because there are a couple procedures that require it to be strapped to the bench. I had a co-worker come over to give me a hand installing it because it is the better part of 200lbs. I was explaining the options we had for getting it off the bench, then out to the truck. He said ok, then walked up to it, bear hugged it and carried it out to the side of the truck. Wow. The guy happens to be a body builder, but I did not expect THAT.
I don't recall exactly, but I think it was about $150ish plus freight.
Not really. I used a new nut and a bunch of red loctite. The way the GM damper is configured, it really doesn't lend itself to well to the split nuts that the Dodges use. There is probably one available, but the damper still had a heavy press-fit and the threads on the shaft for the nut were good, so I gave it a shot this way. We'll see. You can NOT go wrong dealing with Dan at Quad 4x4. Fantastic guy, extrememly intelligent and customer service that is second to none.
I have been getting a few things done here and there. It is tough getting the gumption up to head outside when the temp is 287 degrees F in the shade. The needle on my swamp-ass-o-meter broke off a couple months ago and its done nothing but get hotter. I have been working on the vinyl floor and other interior type stuff, but I will discuss that once I have it figured out and/or done.
I got a front bumper on it. Mine was pretty destroyed from the frame shop, so I picked up a similarly weathered unit that looks like it has been on there for years. I did discover that it had to be notched to clear the '73-'80 tow hooks that I put on it. I knew it would need to be notched, but it was more than I expected. It ended up being about a one inch notch. No biggie for me, but if someone is viewing this as a cost effective alternative to the gold-plated correct hooks, just know that the bumper will need clearancing.
The parking brake cables on the 14FF were not going to work with the lift and the '72 brackets. I need to address this issue because I need a parking brake. The pinion seal has needed replacing for many years and I need to swap the original G80 Gov-Lock unit for an open carrier with a Detroit Locker in it. I guess it is time to tear into the rear axle.
I was glad to see the ring and pinion were in fantastic shape. The backlash was in spec, so no need to replace them. I pulled the carrier out and was going to go after the pinion seal. I was going to check the pinion preload, but decided against it because it woud have been a waste of time. There was some, but nowhere near enough to bother checking. Luckily, I had enough foresight to realize this would probably be the case and I had all the pinion bearings on hand. As I was pulling the pinion support out, the UPS dude showed up with my two crush sleeves and shim kit. I always have two crush sleeves on hand so I can get the preload right the first time. I found out years ago that if I have only one, I go past the specified preload and have to go get another crush sleeve. I got the pinion support assembled and installed. I got the Detroit installed, set the backlash and sealed it up.
Then I started on the parking brake cables. Years ago while killing time thumbing through a Delco catalog, I bought the longest brake cables with the two-bolt mounting that the 14 bolt uses. The are about five inches longer than the ones I have. I tried sizing them up, but they would not work. I had entertained the idea of converting to the crossover cable that the '83 and up use, but figured out a way to get these to work.
Length comparison:
I took the bracket that was bolted to the upper flange of the frame rail and was trying to figure out a way to make it work. It was not working well until I too the one from the right frame rail and tried it on the left side. BAM!! Right there. Perfect. A little bit of cutoff whell action with some welding thrown in and I have a bracket location that nets me about 13-14" of droop before the cable becomes a limiting strap. These springs will not be capable of anywhere near 14" of droop, so it should be fine.
While I was in there I changed out the one ton spring mounting plates and u-bolts for 3/4 ton plates/u-bolts. 3/4 Ton units can be seen in previous pic.
So, nothing too exciting, but progress is being made--I can park it on a surface that is not flat now!!
I got a front bumper on it. Mine was pretty destroyed from the frame shop, so I picked up a similarly weathered unit that looks like it has been on there for years. I did discover that it had to be notched to clear the '73-'80 tow hooks that I put on it. I knew it would need to be notched, but it was more than I expected. It ended up being about a one inch notch. No biggie for me, but if someone is viewing this as a cost effective alternative to the gold-plated correct hooks, just know that the bumper will need clearancing.
The parking brake cables on the 14FF were not going to work with the lift and the '72 brackets. I need to address this issue because I need a parking brake. The pinion seal has needed replacing for many years and I need to swap the original G80 Gov-Lock unit for an open carrier with a Detroit Locker in it. I guess it is time to tear into the rear axle.
I was glad to see the ring and pinion were in fantastic shape. The backlash was in spec, so no need to replace them. I pulled the carrier out and was going to go after the pinion seal. I was going to check the pinion preload, but decided against it because it woud have been a waste of time. There was some, but nowhere near enough to bother checking. Luckily, I had enough foresight to realize this would probably be the case and I had all the pinion bearings on hand. As I was pulling the pinion support out, the UPS dude showed up with my two crush sleeves and shim kit. I always have two crush sleeves on hand so I can get the preload right the first time. I found out years ago that if I have only one, I go past the specified preload and have to go get another crush sleeve. I got the pinion support assembled and installed. I got the Detroit installed, set the backlash and sealed it up.
Then I started on the parking brake cables. Years ago while killing time thumbing through a Delco catalog, I bought the longest brake cables with the two-bolt mounting that the 14 bolt uses. The are about five inches longer than the ones I have. I tried sizing them up, but they would not work. I had entertained the idea of converting to the crossover cable that the '83 and up use, but figured out a way to get these to work.
Length comparison:
I took the bracket that was bolted to the upper flange of the frame rail and was trying to figure out a way to make it work. It was not working well until I too the one from the right frame rail and tried it on the left side. BAM!! Right there. Perfect. A little bit of cutoff whell action with some welding thrown in and I have a bracket location that nets me about 13-14" of droop before the cable becomes a limiting strap. These springs will not be capable of anywhere near 14" of droop, so it should be fine.
While I was in there I changed out the one ton spring mounting plates and u-bolts for 3/4 ton plates/u-bolts. 3/4 Ton units can be seen in previous pic.
So, nothing too exciting, but progress is being made--I can park it on a surface that is not flat now!!
jimbug
1/2 ton status
hey you got some new meats! You list a D70 in your blah blah at the bottom of your posts.... are you going that route? or just planning on keeping the corporate axle?
Not exactly meats, more like donuts. Yeah, with the advent of the Detroit, I am going to run the 14ff for the foreseeable future. I have a D70 out of a Cummins truck, but the 14 is already in there and has all new bearings and a Detroit soooooo, I think it will stay for awhile.
Well, since you brought it up, I did change out the tires and wheels. The BFG mud tires had been sitting for many years and were starting to crack in the sidewalls. I had nine (yes nine) tires given to me awhile back, so I picked up some stock steel wheels, and had them blasted. I brought them home, painted them and had the tires mounted up on them. I also scored some stock 3/4T hub caps some time ago. I threw those on it also and ended up with the "old man" look to the truck.
They are not too sporty, but I am really liking them. It reminds me of what these trucks looked like when they ran around back in the '70's.
Maybe it's just me??
They are not too sporty, but I am really liking them. It reminds me of what these trucks looked like when they ran around back in the '70's.
Maybe it's just me??
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Man that thing is awesome! looks kinda cool with the old school wheel/hubcap setup.
lectric80
3/4 ton status
I like it. And it does remind me of times past, but it still looks good!
