Thinking about buying a LoMax 205

[steve_kibbe]

If the unit was setup for a 4:1, you would see a lot more people buying them.

I agree, like an atlas

 

[Greg72]

You know, the other option I've been considering are the STAK4x4 boxes....

They offer a 3-speed case (1:1, 3.05:1, and 5.44:1) for ~$2800
And now also offer a 2-speed case (your choice of 3:05, 3.75. 4.33 or 5.44) plus the 1:1 range for ~$1800.

I think the input spline options are now 23, 27, 31 (F*rd) and 32. (or at least they will have all these by Mid-March)


So my dilemma now is that I could take my non-Doubler equipped truck with a 205 and swap in either of these cases to get the effect of a Doubler, and may not even have to change driveshaft lengths.

The 3-Speed box offers deeper reduction than a Doubler which also means I don't have to re-gear my axles from 4.10 ratios....so I can still drive on the highway (which I want to do)....however the 3.05 gear really won't be very useful unless I re-gear my axles and lose my highway cogs.

(OR)

I could do an "all or nothing" setup and buy the STAK 2-speed box, and only get a single low range (plus the 1:1 gear)....So I'd have 4HI (no reduction) and 4LO (for which I'd probably take their deepest 5.44 gear option) and be able to get Doubler-caliber crawl ratios for $1800, and not have to re-gear my axles, OR buy an overdrive tranny for the highway jaunts!!




Is it just me, or is this a great time to be a 4x4 enthusiast???!!! There are some great options available for us out there....

 

[sandawgk5]

You could also get a lomax 205 and put it in a doubler application, have lower crawl, and still have highway gears. Put then again it would cost some coin . Would be cool to have though .

Ira

 

[Greg72]

You could also get a lomax 205 and put it in a doubler application, have lower crawl, and still have highway gears. Put then again it would cost some coin . Would be cool to have though .

Ira

...OR, figure out a way to mate my existing WMS 3.1:1 203 to the input side of a STAK box....

 

[sandawgk5]

Ira

 

[sandawgk5]

On a double the "reduction" is in the gearbox correct so it would stand to reason that the gears from the WMS3:1 kit would fit on the shaft from a double kit. Or do I have a GCE (gross conceptial error) .

Ira

 

[Greg72]

On a double the "reduction" is in the gearbox correct so it would stand to reason that the gears from the WMS3:1 kit would fit on the shaft from a double kit. Or do I have a GCE (gross conceptial error) .

Ira

Seems like there should be a way....but I can't visualize the output side of the 203 (or remember if it's truly a 32-spline output?). If the splines match, then it's just a question of the stickout....STAK has a nice flat case around the input side, and the 203 has a nice flat mating surface also....

Maybe the worst case scenario is a small aluminum spacer between the two??

I really do much better seeing/fitting this stuff in-person.

Still, it would be a RAD setup if it truly worked.

 

[jekbrown]

Seems like there should be a way....but I can't visualize the output side of the 203 (or remember if it's truly a 32-spline output?).

IIRC the 203s factory rear output is 32 spline... but you want to just use the reduction box right? If so, its whatever spline your intermediate shaft happens to be. Personally, I am going with a ford 31-spline input on my 205 (behind a 203/WMS DCA) because I have one in-hand and th400 32 spline ones co$t a lot.

If the splines match, then it's just a question of the stickout....STAK has a nice flat case around the input side, and the 203 has a nice flat mating surface also....

Maybe the worst case scenario is a small aluminum spacer between the two??

I'm sure NWF could make you something. I'm still a little confused as to what exactly it is that you want. You already have the 3:1 np203... is there a good reason why you don't just run a normal doubler? 6:1 seems like it ought to be enough in the t-case... heck, I've got by up to now with 1.96:1. I'm goin' regular old 203/205 doubler... 4:1 with 5.13s will be plenty for 99.9% of what I want to do.

j

 

[sandawgk5]

We just discussed this and it is 16.864:1 with a 336:1 crawl ratio in first .

Ira

 

[Greg72]

You already have the 3:1 np203... is there a good reason why you don't just run a normal doubler? 6:1 seems like it ought to be enough in the t-case...

Jek,

My search for a "holistic solution" for the '69 buildup creates some bizzarre requirements...many are contradictory objectives:

Crawl Ratio vs. Highway RPMs is the big one.


I solved the problem backwards from the Mog axles (7.56:1 ratio) and calculated that I'd need roughly .50:1 overdrive to spin the RPMs I wanted on the highway.

Options:

1. Backwards 203 (aka "The Hulk" solution)
2. Run a larger tire on the highway to reduce RPM (This requires a 77" tall tire BTW )
3. Find a transmission with a .50:1 overdrive already in it.

I went with option #3. It just so happens that a 6-Speed from a Dodge Viper has 2 overdrive gears (5th = .74 & 6th = .50) and is beefy enough to hold up to 650HP too.



PROBLEM:

1st Gear in a T56 is a paltry 2.66:1..... No Torque converter "effect" either, since its a manual tranny, so the only way to EVER get a respectable crawl ratio (even wtih 7.56:1 axle gears) is to go REALLY deep in the transfer cases.



SOLUTION:

T56 transmission -> WMS3.1 203 -> STAK 5.44 -> Mog 404 Axles



RESULTS:

1st Gear crawl ratio: 339:1
2nd Gear crawl ratio: 226:1
3rd Gear crawl ratio: 165:1
4th Gear crawl ratio: 127:1

AND

Highway RPM @ 55MPH: 1814
Highway RPM @ 65MPH: 2144
Highway RPM @ 75MPH: 2474



That's the current line of thinking anyway....

It's a bizarre setup, but if I can figure out the adapter (and overall length) issues, it seems like it may just work.






JMS,

Oh and to answer your question: In the lowest range at 650RPM, the truck would only travel 19 feet per minute, or approximately 3 seconds per foot!!! Another way to think about that is that it's 1/4-mile time would be 1 HOUR.

 

[yunit]

Something else cool about the future Stak cases.


From Peterson's:
September 18, 2005
The transfer case wars have begun!

New comer to the transfer case market, STaK 4x4, recently released their three-speed transfer case, (watch for the full story in our January 2006 issue), but as that was going to press, we received word that even more options are coming our way. STaK will now be releasing two new gear ratios for their Monster Box three-speed. The original comes with a 3 to 1 and 5 to 1, but now a 2.43 to 1 and 4.33 to 1 will be available, as well as the first transfer case with a built-in overdrive! Yes, a version with 4.33 to 1 low, 1 to 1 high and .79 to 1 overdrive is on the way. Plus, since their Monster Box was having clearance issues in narrow framed vehicles like early Broncos, that problem has been addressed with their coming B-box that has a slight bend in the case to make it narrower.

 

[Greg72]

the first transfer case with a built-in overdrive! Yes, a version with 4.33 to 1 low, 1 to 1 high and .79 to 1 overdrive is on the way.

...and THAT is the pimpy way to run 5.13s and a slushbox (TH350 or TH400) with almost perfect crawl ratio AND highway RPMs...


Crawl Ratio: 110:1 (with 2:1 stall effect)

AND

Highway RPMs:

55MPH = 1945 RPM
65MPH = 2299 RPM
75MPH = 2653 RPM


For someone with tires in the 37" to 40" range, this is an awesome solution. No expensive overdrive trannies, and you don't even need a Doubler. Just pull the existing case (NP205 or whatever) and swap in this box instead. No weight penalties and no problems with short driveline lengths or steep operating angles either.

The boys at STAK really seem to have thought this one through also!!

 

[6.2Blazer]

SOLUTION:

T56 transmission -> WMS3.1 203 -> STAK 5.44 -> Mog 404 Axles



RESULTS:

1st Gear crawl ratio: 339:1
2nd Gear crawl ratio: 226:1
3rd Gear crawl ratio: 165:1
4th Gear crawl ratio: 127:1

AND



That's the current line of thinking anyway....

Well, those numbers may impress some people over the internet but in real world useage you have at least one gear, and probably two, that are pretty much useless off-road. And probably another gear (3rd) that may not be useless but simply isn't really needed.

 

[Greg72]

Well if you don't like those, try a different gearset in the STAK box instead:


4.33:1 Gearset

1st Gear = 269:1
2nd Gear = 180:1
3rd Gear = 131:1
4th Gear = 101:1


3.75:1 Gearset

1st Gear = 233:1
2nd Gear = 156:1
3rd Gear = 114:1
4th Gear = 87:1


3.05:1 Gearset

1st Gear = 190:1
2nd Gear = 127:1
3rd Gear = 92:1
4th Gear = 71:1


For my tire size, a crawl ratio in the 120:1 range is basically the "sweet spot" (1 in of travel across ground per 1 RPM of engine). The ratios beyond that are simply bonus items.

Having a 6-speed close ratio gearbox means that a lot of the ratios are "freebies"......and are more a function of my needing the overdrive gear, than of really needing all those crawl ratio options. Besides, I find it interesting to think that I can hit the trails in compound low and then use gears 1 - 4 on the tranny to compensate as the terrain changes.....without having to touch the t-cases at all.

 

[6.2Blazer]

...and THAT is the pimpy way to run 5.13s and a slushbox (TH350 or TH400) with almost perfect crawl ratio AND highway RPMs...


Crawl Ratio: 110:1 (with 2:1 stall effect)

AND

Highway RPMs:

55MPH = 1945 RPM
65MPH = 2299 RPM
75MPH = 2653 RPM


For someone with tires in the 37" to 40" range, this is an awesome solution. No expensive overdrive trannies, and you don't even need a Doubler. Just pull the existing case (NP205 or whatever) and swap in this box instead. No weight penalties and no problems with short driveline lengths or steep operating angles either.

The boys at STAK really seem to have thought this one through also!!

Again, don't get me wrong as it sounds cool............but why spend the $$ on this transfer case and also spend the coin to regear the axles?

Keep the stock 4.10 axle gears and just get the t-case version with the lower low range and have the same crawl ratio for technical stuff, plus another low range that would work great for non-technical portions of the trail or where tirespeed was needed.

Personally I think having a 1:1 and 0.79:1 ratio in the transfer case is a waste (unless you are one of the rare people stuck with 'rocks or 'mogs AND want to drive it on the freeway). If you need the OD ratio to comfortably cruise on the highway than what you are going to use a 1:1 ratio for? 1:1 really isn't practical for any trail except for a perfectly flat dirt road.......but I guess you could drop it into 1:1 with the 5.13 axle gears and look cool and fast cruising through town........

 

[sandawgk5]

Again, don't get me wrong as it sounds cool............but why spend the $$ on this transfer case and also spend the coin to regear the axles?

Keep the stock 4.10 axle gears and just get the t-case version with the lower low range and have the same crawl ratio for technical stuff, plus another low range that would work great for non-technical portions of the trail or where tirespeed was needed.

Personally I think having a 1:1 and 0.79:1 ratio in the transfer case is a waste (unless you are one of the rare people stuck with 'rocks or 'mogs AND want to drive it on the freeway). If you need the OD ratio to comfortably cruise on the highway than what you are going to use a 1:1 ratio for? 1:1 really isn't practical for any trail except for a perfectly flat dirt road.......but I guess you could drop it into 1:1 with the 5.13 axle gears and look cool and fast cruising through town........

He is doing it because in his project truck he is running a viper 6-speed tranny and Unimog axles which have a 7.56:1 ratio factory in them. Read the whole post . Plus if you have the coin why not .

Ira

 

[Greg72]

Again, don't get me wrong as it sounds cool............but why spend the $$ on this transfer case and also spend the coin to regear the axles?

Keep the stock 4.10 axle gears and just get the t-case version with the lower low range and have the same crawl ratio for technical stuff, plus another low range that would work great for non-technical portions of the trail or where tirespeed was needed.

BINGO!

You're 100% correct. It all depends on where your build is at already. For my '72 (with 4.10s) I can use a deep gearset in the STAK and leave my axle gears alone. I get highway RPMs and a good crawl ratio.

BUT

If you were already running 5.13s (and perhaps wishing you could still drive TO the trails) an OD STAK box would be a really nice option.



Re-Gearing your axles AND buying an expensive OD transfercase at the same time is pointless.....

 

[sandawgk5]

(unless you are one of the rare people stuck with 'rocks or 'mogs AND want to drive it on the freeway)

I should follow my own advice .

Ira

 

[Lomax]

Thanks!

I can't open your photos. Can you email them to me on our web site? How far have you gotten with your install?

The LoMax is a top notch product,well thought out and worth the wait! Not much rock crawling here in Maine but a need for a good low range for sure.
Im about half way done assembling mine and everything is perfect and I have fondled alot of 205s over the years.

JBC if your out there

 

[jekbrown]

this is way to much time/effort/$ to spend on maintaining highway-capable rigs. So much easier to just buy a trailer and a cheap tow rig and call it good. Besides, its entirely possible that while beating the hell out of your 4x4 that you will break it to the point where it can't drive on the highway safely. At that point it doesn't matter what your gear ratio is... you need a trailer.

j