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Timing Marks

RootBreaker

RootBreaker

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Ok so last night i went out and changed my oil.. had a new filter and oil sitting anyway... so put them in... started the truck..

now im freshly rewired and now have 12 volts to my choke as to which i had 4v previously.. long story... but anyway..


last night i started my truck... and it chugs.. got my timing light out... now i have done this before so the mark is on the balancer..

i just didnt see it at all... couldnt see it on the upper half i could see..
i turned the distributor all the way one way - still nothing
then all the way the other way - still nothing..

Am i seeing things???

now I know my timing is off.. way off.. not sure which way... my truck avenger always had problems.. as i didnt know about the high idle screw... i would set my timing with the light (hence i know there is a timing mark).... but it would idle at 2800rpm's!!!!! then would turn the timing down to a reasonable rpm..

now since i ripped all the wiring out i found that high idle screw.. backed it way off...

so im wondering if maybe my timing is sooooo off that im a tooth on the distributor off or 2??? is that possible? can a truck run that far off?

does that seem like it could be why i dont see my timing line?
 
Could be your harmonic balancer has "slipped" on its rubber insert,which will throw the timing mark way off,yet the engine will still be "timed"....its possible for you to install the distributor so far off you cant see the timing marks but you'll probably have had to move the plug wires on the cap too,to get it to even start & run halfway decent..if the marks were lined up before I'd guess the balancer slipped...
 
however side note.. when trying to start my truck.. it sounded like it is grinding.. horrid sound... then let off key then back on and it is better...

however with timing turned up it doesnt do that.. wonder if the timing was so far off that it wasnt turning over correctly??? was popping through carb... and hessitating with a dead spot.. turning timing up made it seem better although idling at 1800r's... but remember i had a voltage issue and when my timing was set it idled at 2800... so i turned it down.... wondering if my distributor is a tooth off still.....


maybe i will move all the wires over 1... and turn timing down... see if the mark comes back.... :dunno:
 
Yes, what he said...
While it is lined up, look at your rotor, too.
 
this may be an obvious one, but.... find the mark with the truck off, clean the area, then fill in the mark with a paint pen or something.... makes it so much easier to see.
 
well the problem was the timing was soooooo off... almost 180 degrees... truck was idling at 1800rpm with throttle adjustment all the way out and high idle screw all the way out...

so we did the spark plug deal... WOW...
the rotor was 1 to 2 teeth off... more like 2 teeth...

so we dropped the distro in and now points to #1 cylinder... now the timing mark shows up!!!!!!! WOOT!!!!!!!!!!

and now we have the timing set to 6 degrees.....

well now the truck idles low... but has a miss to it... and boggs on hitting the gas... now im wondering if that is due to a few things..

1. need to redo the holley truck avenger floats...
2. change accelerator cam out
3. change spark plugs... they are BLACK!!!!!!!!! carboned up!!!!!!

so verdict on plugs is ac delco right....

figure lets start back to basics... then move up....
 
side note.. called my father (go figure im 38 and still calling daddy)...

anyway he is a mechanic.. i told him i had the timing set to 4 degrees.. he was like... you changed the cam... your gonna want to be at 12-14 degrees tdc....

sound right?

he also said the black plugs is due to running rich.. he asked if my choke was sticking.. and that was one of the reasons for the rewire.. 4volts from a 12v source.. so id say it was sticking... he told me to not buy new ones.. he said if i get the truck running right.. they will clean them selves up quick....

sound right?
 
The distributor could be installed 180* off & still run like you described.
Here is my sure fire way to get it cranked when you are way off time.
-Pull off the #1 spark plug & confirm there is a good spark
-Make sure you have gas in the system eg: look & the carb & pump it once
-remove the spark plug & replace with a wine bottle cork
-bump the ignition until the cork pops! You are now at TDC
-Look at the distributor cap & see where the #1 plug wire is.
-Take off the cap to see if the button is under the #1 plug wire.
-if not ,then rotate the cap until it is.
- If it wont turn that far then take out the distributor & spin the shaft 180* & try again.
I don't think you could be 1 or 2 teeth off on the distributor. There is a groove on the bottom of the shaft. It could only be 180*off.
I could be wrong but I am speaking from experience.
 
The groove at the bottom of the distributor shaft engages the oil pump and the pump is not synced to the cam any other way. So the distributor can be dropped in at any tooth, you just need to turn the oil pump with a real long screwdriver or something.
 
I would keep on the timing until you're sure it's right and then move on to other things. Did you verify TDC with an object in the spark plug hole or just pressure? If you can verify that the timing tab is exactly right, then you're OK. But make sure the vac advance is hooked to the right thing and the mech advance is not frozen up.

So when did these problems start and what had changed?
 
Interesting to hear how many people will say an engine will run with the distributor 180 out of time, in the past 20 some years of working on engines, i have had several occassions where i dropped a dizzy out of time and all it would ever do is spit out the carb and through the exhaust. Not sure how you can get good ignition in the cylinders when firing on an open valve exhaust stroke, or ignition while not before compression is achieved.
I dunno, just personal experience here, never had one run at all 180 out of sync.
 
i'm just amazed how many times i see it.... i did it once when i was 19, learned my lesson and have never done it again... and i musta stabbed a thousand dizzy's since then... but i must get 3 or 4 customers a year working on there own stuff that do it... get on the boat, spin it over dude, yup, your 180 out, walk off.... :haha: and yeah, not a single one has ever run... :deal:
 
ryoken said:
i'm just amazed how many times i see it.... i did it once when i was 19, learned my lesson and have never done it again... and i musta stabbed a thousand dizzy's since then... but i must get 3 or 4 customers a year working on there own stuff that do it... get on the boat, spin it over dude, yup, your 180 out, walk off.... :haha: and yeah, not a single one has ever run... :deal:
Click to expand...

Same here, I did it once when I was 18...it was my first time installing a distributor after an intake change...shot a flame about 4 feet high out the carb...of course it didn't run...never got it wrong again.
 
pblaze725 said:
The distributor could be installed 180* off & still run like you described.
Click to expand...

yup said in post 8... my distro was probably 180 out.. as i couldnt see the mark..

now mine ran because it was out of timing but set to a higher mark.. 1-2 teeth is all it took.... im leaning towards 2 teeth..

when we got TDC.. pulled the cap... looking down... the rotor was about facing the front of the truck.. not towards #1 cyl at all... so instaed of 5 oclock.. it was like 5:30 (you know on the non digital clocks how the short hand will move away from the 5 when it is at 5:30?? that is how far it was of... but still idled at 1800 rpms.. but with only 4v to the choke it was smothering the motor... to which would get the idle down.. weird...
 
I've always found TDC by pulling the valve cover and watching the rocker arms/valves open and close in relation to the timing tab...

Too much advance will seriously strain the starter...

I don't know much about your partictular carb tho
 
COCHEV said:
I've always found TDC by pulling the valve cover and watching the rocker arms/valves open and close in relation to the timing tab...

Too much advance will seriously strain the starter...

I don't know much about your partictular carb tho
Click to expand...

strain the starter.. is that what they call it?
it was horrid on the starter!!!!!!!!!!

so now im gonna yank all the plugs (1 at a time) and hit them with a wire brush to get some of the carbon off... then see if i can get the rest of it timed up...
gonna try and get it on the road again sooooooon...
 
RootBreaker said:
yup said in post 8... my distro was probably 180 out.. as i couldnt see the mark..

now mine ran because it was out of timing but set to a higher mark.. 1-2 teeth is all it took.... im leaning towards 2 teeth..

when we got TDC.. pulled the cap... looking down... the rotor was about facing the front of the truck.. not towards #1 cyl at all... so instaed of 5 oclock.. it was like 5:30 (you know on the non digital clocks how the short hand will move away from the 5 when it is at 5:30?? that is how far it was of... but still idled at 1800 rpms.. but with only 4v to the choke it was smothering the motor... to which would get the idle down.. weird...
Click to expand...
What you describe you were one probably two teeth off on the dist. The module wiring won't let you turn the dist. enough to bring the marks into sight.
 
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