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Timing with a .... timing light?

78 GMC Jimmy

1/2 ton status
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400 SBC.

So I need to set this timing light dial to 36 and then disconnect / plug vacuum.

Then hold the RPS at 3K.

Then Adjust the distributor to 0 on the timing marks.

Tighten distributor bolt, reconnect vacuum, and that's it? Then I'm done?



01212_kc649zS1bIa_0ao0oc_600x450.jpg
 
36 degrees is total timing. You need advance for that so vacuum would need to be hooked up. Disconnect vacuum, set base timing to 8-10 degrees and take it for a ride if it pings back it down some, if it doesn’t, run it.
 
So I checked the timing and it was way past 16. If I had to guess it was around 30. That's at 900 rpm with vacuum disconnected. Lots of power. I reduced it to 17. Seems to have less power. Whats my goal here? Do I want to try to get as close to 0 as possible without pinging, or do I want to get as close to 100 as possible without pinging?
 
the goal is to have 34-36° total advance at @3000. Disconnect the vacuum advance. You set your base timing, 8-12°. Rev engine to 3000 rpm, and see how much total advance you have. If it not between 34-36° then adjustments to the mechanical advance are need to change that. Not the initial base timing.
 
Set it up for GM specs for year.... All data used to be on decals
 
If your idle is at 900, you may want to back that down a bit if you can. Stock engines are a fair bit lower than that - you may be idling on the primary circuit instead of the idle circuit. And that may be fast enough to throw off the idle timing reading a little bit. If you still have the sticker up on the core support it should say what idle speed should be. But an auto in gear is something like 600... ish...
 
It possible your ring has spun on the balancer....16 degrees at idle with no vaccuum hooked up is a lot, but as others have said 900 rpm is a bit high. I would start all this by putting #1 at TDC and making sure your timing mark is at least close, set base (idle with vaccuum disconnected) to 8-12 and go from there.
 
If your idle is at 900, you may want to back that down a bit if you can. Stock engines are a fair bit lower than that - you may be idling on the primary circuit instead of the idle circuit. And that may be fast enough to throw off the idle timing reading a little bit. If you still have the sticker up on the core support it should say what idle speed should be. But an auto in gear is something like 600... ish...


Its not the stock motor. The rig is a 78 that originally had a 350 auto. Now it has a 400 from an unknown year with a manual trans. Where do I set the idle?
 
Its not the stock motor. The rig is a 78 that originally had a 350 auto. Now it has a 400 from an unknown year with a manual trans. Where do I set the idle?
I set my standards at. 750. Seemed to keep plugs cleaner at idle
 
Out of curiosity, what started this endeavor? Were you having problems or just tune up stuff? When was it last actually gone through?

Also, if the engine has been replaced, what cam is in there, is it a stockish build? That will affect things.
 
One other thing, the engine is fully warmed when doing the timing, not. Still on the choke?
 
One other thing, the engine is fully warmed when doing the timing, not. Still on the choke?


It all started with the engine not turning over when warm. It acted like it was hydro locked. I thought it was a timing issue that was causing pre-ignition that would not allow it to turn over fast enough to start. So I messed with the timing a lot. Turns out that it was crud in the cooling system that was causing the cylinders to overheat which caused the pre-ignition starting problem. So now that I have the cooling system fixed the starting problem went away. Now the timing still needs to be set properly. Unknown cam, no idea whats in there, but I would not surprise me at all if it was not stock. Someone did a lot of mods to this rig before I got it. I just cant seem to get a strait answer on where the timing should be for maximum power. I dont care about fuel mileage at all. Currently it starts and runs fine. When I set it to 10, it doesnt have as much power. When I set it to like... 30 - it has more power on WOT. I have tried vacuum timing, timing by ear, timing lights, etc. My max power is not even close to the recommended base timing marks. I can put it at 30 base and it seems to be the best for power. I ordered an adjustable timing light that will arrive today, so that I can see exactly what the timing is rather than just guessing that its at or around 30 (since the timing marks only go to 16). So lets say 30 works great. I dont want great, I want perfect. 32? 29? How do I dial it in so that its at the absolute max power without a dyno machine? How do I get the optimal timing? I hate trying to time it by ear becasue there is no way to get it perfect.
 
There were 2 sets of timing marks for small blocks. About 20deg off from one another and they can intermix and cause problems. Need to verify your timing marks. As someone could have changed them.

Probably also want to have a look at the carb, make sure it's set within reason and they work together. Or at least 1 could affect the other if way off.

Screenshot above said 700 fyi

As far as the carb, you may want to verify how it's set. And ensure it's actually on the idle circuit.
 
To Many unknowns here. 30° initial is to much. I know this is guess, but if everything is matching and balancer ring is true, you should still be on the timing tab. 16° btc would be max initial base timing for a normally aspirated engine, this is with a properly tune and jetted carb. 10-14° is more realistic, still with a properly tuned and jetted carb.
Something is not right here. I believe you when you say the engine has more power at WOT, with set at your estimated 30° initial timing, thing is it shouldn't.
It should ping and rattle get hot, and have slow crank cold or hot. So we need to find out what is going on here.



1ST thing we need to be sure of is the timing mark and tab are accurate. With out doing this then you might as well guess and time it by ear, cause using a light on unproven marks is no different.

Step one get a piston stop tool.
piston stop.jpg
Or make your own from an old spark plug. Knock the porcelain out the plug nut, tap the nut 3/8 16 tpi 2" 3/8 stove bolt.
Step two remove #1 spark plug, front cylinder driver's side, install piston stop. Turn crank slowly by hand until you hit the piston stop. Mark Balancer at 0 notch on timing tab. rotate the crank opposite slowly by hand until you hit the stop again ( do not allow the stove bolt to move between directions) mark the balancer at 0 on the notch timing tab.
Step 3 the exact center of the two mark on the balancer is true Top Dead Center #1. Mark this with something that will show under the timing light. If the center is the timing grove on the balancer ring so much the better. If it is not then your balancer ring has spun and is no longer a dependable timing mark. Nor is it balancing the crank shaft properly and should be replaced.
Once we have a proven balancer mark we need to match the balancer with timing tab. 2 style of tabs where used. 1st and most common is with the tab at @ 2 o'clock. 2nd the tab is at 12 o'clock.
Step one remove piston stop, either use a remote start button tool or have a helper. Stick your thumb over the spark plug hole, bump engine over until the pressure pushes your thumb off. This will get you close to #1 TDC Compression stroke.
Step 2 reinstall the piston stop, screw in the center bolt, rotate the crank clockwise, looking at it from the front, until it hits the stop. Back stop center bolt off a turn and rotate crank until it hits the stop. Do this until you are close to lining up the timing marks. Once the marks are close, say 2° the piston stop may not hit. If the Proven mark on the balancer lines up with the timing tab 0 notch your good to go. If it does not then you need to mark a second TDC, to match the timing tab 2.25" from proven mark we established earlier. Or get matching parts. Since your engine is SBC 400 I am going to go out on limb here and say there is only 1 choice, and that is 2 o'clock timing tab position.
Once all of the above is done and proven, we can use the timing light to set your initial timing and check total timing, both mechanical which should add @ 20° to your initial timing setting, and with vacuum.
 
OK, so I blocked off the vacuum advance and changed my timing from 16 to 12.

Then I connected the vacuum and checked the total advance with my timing light set to 30.

Timing marks said something around 5 after TDC @3K PRM.

So I turned the distributor to get the marks to zero (@ 3K RPM).

Rechecked the initial timing, and its back at about 16.

Seems fine I guess, but when the engine lugs it pings. 2K RPM 4th gear, if I press the throttle it pings between about 25 and 40% throttle, but doesn't ping outside of that throttle range.


What do I do now?
 
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