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Towing in OD w/4.10s

I don't know what year it started, but many GM trucks with autos (personally verified on a 95 1-ton) have a sticker on the edge of the driver's door stating NOT to use overdrive when towing or carrying loads.

I've also worked for several years in the used parts industry. It was not uncommon to sell auto transmissions to customers who had been refused warranty due to towing in overdrive. At least if you have knowledge of this warning, you could lie (uhh... did I say that?)

Regardless of the reasoning behind the warning - overheating, friction discs, lock-up, etc - the manufacturer doesn't want you doing it, and will void the warranty if you admit to it.
 
Some great points in this post so far guys...

Yeah you're right GM has mad a ton of upgrades to the tranny overtime, but still IMO are a bit weak. Of course hard parts don't fail everyday and maybe it is the people I hang around (hardcore street and drag racers for car... way hardcore mud pit guys for trucks), but like either dyeager or leadfoot said... "too weak for what they are designed for...YES!" . (whatya mean it isn't normal abuse w 44" boggers and a BBC
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LOL). But ask around and I believe a majority of tranny shops will recomend swapping servo's, shell, and sprag along w/ a bunch of other mods if you plan to "abuse" the 700, but even then you are playing with fire.

I like the point of driver's not being used to shifting an automatic. Makes real sense as today's newer drivers are much like society as a whole IMO... just put here in drive and go.

-Mikey
1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
<a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch</a>
 
Well said Leadfoot... I wasn't really thinking about the whole towing issue when I was talking about lockup and that. I also agree the hard parts usually don't fail under so called "normal use". I have personally busted hard parts due to a tranny that was incorrectly rebuilt (well they put in a vette servo and didn't really match the valve body modifications to it so it was shifting hard as heck) but other then that you are right most 700 failures start w/ slipping, hard shifts, etc. I agree the first 700's took too long to shift, but then the 700's suffered even more due to the fact shops tried to modify them to shift quicker. They would modify say 2nd to shift in faster, but wouldn't modify 1st to release faster thus you would get some binding.

6200+trailor huh? How far do you tow it? I have been pondering whether to pick up a th400/205 combo and swap it in because I still plan for some trailor duty (approx 6,000 lbs.). Did you mean you have a 700 matched w/ a 205 in the pull truck?

-Mikey
1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
<a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch</a>
 
Has anyone noticed what Trans is in Stephen Watson's Blazer. Its a 700r4. He went through the Top Truck Challenge and didnt break a thing. He's got a 500 hp Big block, 42 inch tires, and it held up. If it didnt break in the T.T.C. Then I really think there is no question on the strength if its built right.

4 wheeling is like sex, when its good, its really, really good, when its bad its still pretty good.
 
As for the torque converter not locking up in 2nd, mine does. Don't believe me? Ride in my truck. It does. I swear.

"my buddy this" "steve watson that"

How come people that beat them hard have broken them with stock 305s then? I'm with you--I do believe the 700R4 is a good tranny, but it's not made to pull in overdrive, and it's not nearly as strong as the others it replaced. I will never say a 700R4 is junk--it's probably my favorite automatic.

I don't care what you guys say about modification either. "It can stand up to 600 HP". Really? Even if you had a 600 HP motor, how often would it be putting out 600 HP? Not very often, as that'd most likely be a high RPM peak. That's all BS and has nothing to do with towing.

Towing in OD invloves lugging the motor down at an RPM that it could even have a hard time pulling the truck. I find it very hard to believe that lugging the engine down, putting that much load on the gear that is already the weakest, and combining that with the crappy gears these trucks came standard with will ever be a winning combination.

Mikey,

You'd be surprised. My friend's '86 K10 came from the factory with 31" tires and 3.08s. Mine came with 235s and 2.73s. His still has the 3.08s. I lost mine a long time ago for 4.10s.

Tim
'84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
 
Yup... Stephen runs an Art Carr 700.... awsome trannys... pricey but awsome!

-Mikey
1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
<a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch</a>
 
Got to agree with you there--he's been known to make some killer 700s.

Tim
'84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
 
I agree with what you just said, and you agreed with me. I don't think the stock GM 700's (of any year), are that great a unit. I am talking about upgraded AFTERMARKET parts and rebuilders (sorry I may not have been clear on that). I agree that GM does not use the best parts, like Dorian said, they wouldn't make any money if they did. I also agree that towing in OD in a stock tranny is a BAD idea. I will also say that the 4L80 is a better tranny stock than the 700, but it too has it's weaknesses. All stock trannies were designed with a specific use in mind. But trannys as well as vehicles can be modified to an extent to make them serve other purposes than what they were "intended" for. Hell, 90% of the people on this board use there rigs in ways not originally intended by GM designers, testers, and fabricators. Does that mean we shouldn't use them as such, HELL NO
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, but it does mean that we have to modify components (or replace them with stronger ones) in order to do what we would like them to do. And as with anything, there is a limit. All I was trying to say is that people hate the 700's and wouldn't give you $5.00 for one (and I agree stock they aren't worth much), but that they can be made to do some pretty impressive things. My rig in proof, same with Stephen's. I "suggest" people should build them because they usually have one and considering the cost of a used 4L80, the cost of a quality rebuild, Torque Converter, and controller, you can build a capable 700 for much less. I'm not saying don't use the 4L80 (truth be known, if I had a 4L80 to begin with, or a computer to use, I would have rather have used the 4L80, but cost vs. gain was to much for ME).
I won't disaggree that towing in OD will kill a stock tranny, but it usually won't cause a hard part failure, just burnt clutches/bands. I think every post on here agrees one way or another, just from different angles.

See my rig at <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Leadfoot>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Leadfoot</a>
 
I consider burnt clutches and bands as a hard part failure. If the vehicle won't move, regardless of whether or not there are chunks of metal/aluminum in the pan, you're going to be walking home. I see nothing wrong with a properly built 700. I would swap one in place of the 350 in my k5 in a second if I drove it on the highway. Just don't tow a heavy load in OD with it. Automatic transmissions are designed to fail. Clutches and bands wear, and when they are past their life they need to be replaced. There are just a few things (not towing in OD, running a trans cooler) that make them last a little longer.

'79 K5, '79 Suburban, '76 Br**co, 77 K20
'99 BB 4x4 Suburban to tow more junk home
 
Here's where we agree again, just from different points of view. I guess my meaning of hard parts is parts that aren't designed to wear/break normally. As I stated before (and you stated), auto tranny will only last so long. The nature of the beast is that clutches and bands will wear. You can take steps to prolong the life, but they WILL fail. Somebody (I can't remember if it was you or somebody else) stated that the 700's fail because of things like input sprags and sungears. Those I consider hard parts because they aren't designed to wear or break. I know that as something gets used it will wear, but they are not designed to wear like clutches. When I said they don't fail because of hard parts, I was refering to the sprags, roller bearings, sungears, planetaries, etc. not to the clutches and bands, which somebody stated causes the 700's to fail. Now I agree that these pieces can break (especially under shock loads), but they are not the cause of most 700 failures. That said (and looking at both our previous posts), I agree that the clutches and bands will eventually fail. As to whether or not to call them "hard parts", I guess it's how you look at it. So I guess we feel the same as far as what fails and how. We also agree that towing in OD will not lengthen the life of a tranny, but I feel that if used properly, it will not shorten it significantly (*****on a properly built tranny*****, a stock one or poorly rebuilt one is a different story). Once the bands and clutches are engaged, and they have enough fluid pressure to hold the load, they will not slip, and will not create more heat.........
I guess you could argue that while towing, the tranny takes longer to shift from 3-4 causing more wear, and without an aftermarket 3-4 upshift sleeve the tranny will hunt between 3-4 alot when towing, but with the sleeve installed and good driving habits, the amount of additional wear I think is negligable (*****on a properly built tranny*****, a stock one or poorly rebuilt one is a different story). Again, this is just personal opinion based on my experiences with these tranny's, as well as those of my rebuilder. You have a valid point too, because of your experiences. Who knows, maybe I've just had exceptionally good luck (but that usually doesn't happen to me
tongue.gif
).

See my rig at <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Leadfoot>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Leadfoot</a>
 
I'm cool with that. I hear ya on the luck thing. I've been limping a th350 for the last year now.

'79 K5, '79 Suburban, '76 Br**co, 77 K20
'99 BB 4x4 Suburban to tow more junk home
 
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