Towing Questions

[ktmoutfront]

I could be wrong, but I have never seen a weight distribution hitch on a surge brake trailer. I understand that it interferes with the braking ability. Same with the anti sway mechanism.

The longer the drop hitch the more input the trailer will have in giving the truck a roll feel. It will they to twist the truck on it's roll center.

 

[Fordum]

I have seen plenty of antisway cylinders on load leveling hitches, in fact many of them have places designed on them for that purpose.

However, I have never seen surge brakes on those hitches, but most of the times you use those hitches, its on big travel trailers and they usually come standard with electric brakes.

But, if you use the chain adjusting type, I can't see a reason they would not work. The chain gives lots of movement.

I will check around. Ryoken probably knows. He is around really big trailered boats all the time, and I suspect he has seen just about every hitch there is.

 

[Chevy305]

I have seen plenty of antisway cylinders on load leveling hitches, in fact many of them have places designed on them for that purpose.

However, I have never seen surge brakes on those hitches, but most of the times you use those hitches, its on big travel trailers and they usually come standard with electric brakes.

But, if you use the chain adjusting type, I can't see a reason they would not work. The chain gives lots of movement.

I will check around. Ryoken probably knows. He is around really big trailered boats all the time, and I suspect he has seen just about every hitch there is.

I just looked it up and the load leveling hitches can't be used on surge brake trailers.

Ya I bet Ryoken would have some good insight on this subject.

 

[AJMBLAZER]

Just a thought man, and I'm no towing expert, but it seems to me like you're pushing the truck beyond it's limits.

At it's core it's still a 30+ year old truck designed 40 or so years ago. The factory towing rating on the thing was only like 5000lbs because no one ever considered towing 11,000 lbs like some half tons are supposedly rated for today.

Meanwhile you're lifted on large, wide tires with large sidewalls and low weight ratings.

You've had some good suggestions but if you really want to push it up to 9000lbs I'd say find a different truck to do it with. You're getting to sketchy territory as far as capability goes and you're definitely not legal.

I know my '84 single cab longbed K30 only had a towing rating of like 9000lbs.

 

[Fordum]

I just looked it up and the load leveling hitches can't be used on surge brake trailers.

Ya I bet Ryoken would have some good insight on this subject.

The main problem from what I can see with surge brakes is the sway control.
The chain-style load leveling hitch I use should have plenty of play to let surge brakes work.

The main problem with running leveling hitches on boats, is that there is only the one shaft unlike a travel trailer that has the "Y" frame.

This outfit claims to have fixed all those problems. Their leveling hitch will work with surge brakes, and they have an adapter to let you run a single pole trailer.
Plus, they have built in sway control.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/productinfo/compatibility.php

 

[Fordum]

There is another option.

I like electric brakes on big stuff, because they give me better control. But I prefer surge brakes on boat trailers, because the new ones with disk brakes handle water very well.
I don't like the idea of submerging electrics.
And, since in all my circumstances, the boats are a lot lighter than the travel trailers.
Properly setup surge brakes on boats pretty much make the load disappear. You will know its back there when you start up from a stop, but when you go to stop, its like you have no boat back there.
Electric brakes can do this, but they take some fiddling go get right. Otherwise you find yourself stopping quicker than normal, longer than normal, or when you begin to stop, you find that you are being pushed, but a few seconds later you find you are stopping too fast.

There is now a setup that gives you the hydraulic disk brake advantage but without having to worry about whether the surge part will work with the leveling hitch.

http://www.pacifictrailers.com/Brake-Rite-II-SD-Electric/Hydraulic-Brake-Actuator-Kit-4835700/

Have not used it, but I see lots of good reviews on other sites.

I'm sure you still have to fiddle with the controller to get it right just like any electric brake system.

 

[jekquistk5]

yup

 

[Chevy305]

Just a thought man, and I'm no towing expert, but it seems to me like you're pushing the truck beyond it's limits.

At it's core it's still a 30+ year old truck designed 40 or so years ago. The factory towing rating on the thing was only like 5000lbs because no one ever considered towing 11,000 lbs like some half tons are supposedly rated for today.

Meanwhile you're lifted on large, wide tires with large sidewalls and low weight ratings.

You've had some good suggestions but if you really want to push it up to 9000lbs I'd say find a different truck to do it with. You're getting to sketchy territory as far as capability goes and you're definitely not legal.

I know my '84 single cab longbed K30 only had a towing rating of like 9000lbs.

You're right that's why I was looking at the duramax for a new truck but I ended up taking home a Camaro... As it turns out the boats I'm looking at for an eventual upgrade are actually more like 6000-7000 fully loaded on the trailer. That definitely sounds like a much safer range to be in.

The main problem from what I can see with surge brakes is the sway control.
The chain-style load leveling hitch I use should have plenty of play to let surge brakes work.

The main problem with running leveling hitches on boats, is that there is only the one shaft unlike a travel trailer that has the "Y" frame.

This outfit claims to have fixed all those problems. Their leveling hitch will work with surge brakes, and they have an adapter to let you run a single pole trailer.
Plus, they have built in sway control.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/productinfo/compatibility.php

I don't get it, there's not a single pictures of the hitch on the whole site? As far as upgrading my tires, that won't happen real soon as they still have a decent amount of tread left on them. When they do wear out I'll upgrade to 17"s. I feel like 15" wheels are outdated anyway.

 

[Fordum]

I don't get it, there's not a single pictures of the hitch on the whole site?

That is a little weird. They have pictures on the installation manuals, like this one.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/pdf/4kequalizerownersmanual_web_0311.pdf

There is another brand that is supposed to work with surge brakes. It uses chains, but the chains are not hooked to the arms. They are hooked to rollers that the arms sit in.
That way they can move back and forth to let the surge brakes work. I'll try to find the brand.

 

[Chevy305]

Those hitches are really nice and I'm sure they'll work great but at the cost of $750 I think I'll try a new frame mount reciever with a bigger drop on the ball first and see where that gets me.

Also look at the picture again, my rear end isn't squatting at all. Isn't that what this hitch is supposed to fix?

 

[Fordum]

Well, what the hitch actually does is transfer the weight from the rear axle to both front and rear axles.
It just makes everything smoother.
There are two things about the rear end not squatting.
First, you may not have enough of the percentage of the trailer weight as tongue weight, which would cause the wobble.

Also, you could put heavy enough springs on the rear axle and it would not squat even with the front wheels off the ground. So, that is not a good indicator.

This is why air shocks, overload springs, and that sort of thing is not the way to correct sag caused by tongue weight. Which is where a lot of people make mistakes.
If you have the sag causing weight over the axles, then those will work. The load is pretty much straight down when you hit bumps.

But, with trailer weight, the load is behind the axle, and when you hit a bump the springs might not sag, but you are going to get a big bounce as the truck tries to pivot around the back axle and raise the front end.
Weight Distributing hitches stop that.

I have seen demonstrations where front wheel drive cars or 4wd trucks hook to a trailer with extra strong WD spring bars.
The hitch will actually pick the rear tires off the ground.
Then they take the rear tires off and drive off on the front wheels.......