I had my son get in and shift. Yes, In neutral just going all the way towards the firewall and back.. i think he was a bit awe struck just sitting in there, so it may not be perfect shift but hopefully enough for better eyes to see whats going on
CK5
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Transfer Case 101 for a newbie
- Thread starter TJ1978
- Start date
There are some knock off wheels that look nearly the same. They should say Weld on them somewhere if they are really made by Weld.
I’ll have to double check, wasnt aware of that.
It looks to me that the shifter pulling the lever toward lock when going towards high range which is good. It seems to push on the switch decently. When that lever is against the switch, the front shaft should be locked to the rear output, if the adjustment of the linkage is close or correct.
I just don't understand why there isn't more movement from the other lever, which should also cause the lock lever to go opposite, as in back towards the switch and in the opposite direction from the range lever when it goes towards the rear of the truck. This should happen when the lever in the cab is pushed toward the dash. BUT it could be due to the gears not being in alignment. Rocking the rear driveshaft could help with that.
However, you would probably be just as well to try it in the cab and see if there is a noticeable difference in the gear ratio when you put it in gear and drive forward.
I just don't understand why there isn't more movement from the other lever, which should also cause the lock lever to go opposite, as in back towards the switch and in the opposite direction from the range lever when it goes towards the rear of the truck. This should happen when the lever in the cab is pushed toward the dash. BUT it could be due to the gears not being in alignment. Rocking the rear driveshaft could help with that.
However, you would probably be just as well to try it in the cab and see if there is a noticeable difference in the gear ratio when you put it in gear and drive forward.
OK, part of this question is really simple to answer.
First, I assume its an automatic transmission, because I think I see a vacuum modulator with the shift lever hitting the steel line for some reason.
If so, shifting with the transmission in neutral should only be done without the engine running. If the engine is running, you need the transmission in park, or you will get some gear grind when you hit neutral in the transfer case.
Second, when doing all this, since the drive train is going to be in neutral at least some of the time, be darn sure the wheels are chocked to keep it from rolling over you.
Next, unlock the hubs. Put the transfer case in any gear. Transmission in park, try to turn the front driveshaft. If it turns freely, crank the truck and try to drive it off.
If it drives off with the hubs unlocked and the front shaft free to turn, then you have the part time kit in the transfer case.
If it won't drive off, turn the truck off before trying to shift into park.
Then shift the transfer case into another gear and check the front shaft. If, in any transfer case gear, you can turn the front shaft freely and the truck will drive off, then it has the part time kit
If it will not drive off with the front shaft free, then odds are you do not have the kit. I helped install many of the kits back in the day, and there was always some one who figured a kit was too expensive, and could save gas by putting just the hubs on and driving in hiloc.
They didn't, but it made them feel good.......
Either way, there is something flaky with the shifter linkage. For one thing, it should not hit and kink that steel line with the short piece of hose that hooks to the round gadget on the side of the transmission.
I agree that the second shaft should be doing something. Try shifting it with the transmission in neutral, engine off, and the truck rolling at a slow walking speed or below.
If you don't get all the positions with it slowly rolling, then its not gear binding, it the shifter linkage.
About the park warning: When an auto is in neutral, the output will not drive anything. But if there is no load on it, it will spin when the engine is running.
So, if you put the transfer case in neutral, the gears and output shaft of the transmission will spin at pretty much engine speed. Which will cause a grinding when you try to put the transfer case in gear, or try to put the transmission in park.
Trust me, after over 40 years of running a PTO winch on trucks with automatics, I have heard that grind many times.
First, I assume its an automatic transmission, because I think I see a vacuum modulator with the shift lever hitting the steel line for some reason.
If so, shifting with the transmission in neutral should only be done without the engine running. If the engine is running, you need the transmission in park, or you will get some gear grind when you hit neutral in the transfer case.
Second, when doing all this, since the drive train is going to be in neutral at least some of the time, be darn sure the wheels are chocked to keep it from rolling over you.
Next, unlock the hubs. Put the transfer case in any gear. Transmission in park, try to turn the front driveshaft. If it turns freely, crank the truck and try to drive it off.
If it drives off with the hubs unlocked and the front shaft free to turn, then you have the part time kit in the transfer case.
If it won't drive off, turn the truck off before trying to shift into park.
Then shift the transfer case into another gear and check the front shaft. If, in any transfer case gear, you can turn the front shaft freely and the truck will drive off, then it has the part time kit
If it will not drive off with the front shaft free, then odds are you do not have the kit. I helped install many of the kits back in the day, and there was always some one who figured a kit was too expensive, and could save gas by putting just the hubs on and driving in hiloc.
They didn't, but it made them feel good.......
Either way, there is something flaky with the shifter linkage. For one thing, it should not hit and kink that steel line with the short piece of hose that hooks to the round gadget on the side of the transmission.
I agree that the second shaft should be doing something. Try shifting it with the transmission in neutral, engine off, and the truck rolling at a slow walking speed or below.
If you don't get all the positions with it slowly rolling, then its not gear binding, it the shifter linkage.
About the park warning: When an auto is in neutral, the output will not drive anything. But if there is no load on it, it will spin when the engine is running.
So, if you put the transfer case in neutral, the gears and output shaft of the transmission will spin at pretty much engine speed. Which will cause a grinding when you try to put the transfer case in gear, or try to put the transmission in park.
Trust me, after over 40 years of running a PTO winch on trucks with automatics, I have heard that grind many times.
Well, I try again when Im off work. Ill take the boot off the shifter.
Should I spray som break clean in there? Maybe the shifter is binding on something going towards the firewall.
With shifter all the way back (towards driver) both drive shafts do not spin, same for one click forwad from that postions.
It gets wonky ging towards neutral, Then the next click Im all the way towards thr firewall.
I started that youtube page. Ill make a video and post it.
Maybe it is workin properly and I just dont have the experience to notice it and with that lack of knowledge prevents me from explaining it? I dont know? I didnt think a Tcase would be a problem or it its not and Im overthinking it as Im very very often to do.
Should I spray som break clean in there? Maybe the shifter is binding on something going towards the firewall.
With shifter all the way back (towards driver) both drive shafts do not spin, same for one click forwad from that postions.
It gets wonky ging towards neutral, Then the next click Im all the way towards thr firewall.
I started that youtube page. Ill make a video and post it.
Maybe it is workin properly and I just dont have the experience to notice it and with that lack of knowledge prevents me from explaining it? I dont know? I didnt think a Tcase would be a problem or it its not and Im overthinking it as Im very very often to do.
As stated above, from the factory a truck with full-time 4wd did NOT have locking hubs. Rather they had the drive slugs that kept the front axle engaged all the time (same as having a set of hubs locked in permanently). There is a very good chance that if somebody installed locking hubs then they also installed the part time kit. Easiest way to tell is make sure the hubs are UNlocked and then place the transmission in the High or Low positions. If there is no part-time kit installed the truck will not move, or move very little, in this condition. If you then place the transfer case shifter in the High Lock or Low Lock position it will move.
Im wondering if installing this kit would be worth the $$
https://offroaddesign.com/catalog/NP203TwinStickShifters.htm
In the meantime give my gear shifter and linkage a good bath in break clean, from the can down, then floor up. then WD40 or if you guys recommend another lubricant. I know wd is really that but.
https://offroaddesign.com/catalog/NP203TwinStickShifters.htm
In the meantime give my gear shifter and linkage a good bath in break clean, from the can down, then floor up. then WD40 or if you guys recommend another lubricant. I know wd is really that but.
The twin stick is nice, however I believe that you may have to decide if it's worth it. I have a triple stick in my '90 from ORD on a doubler from them. I like the positive shifting but mine needed some extra clearance made in the transmission tunnel even with the 1" body lift. A twin stick probably won't have that issue, but I have no experience with one. And mine aren't 100% rattle free, but I only have to have a rubber band around the 2 for the 205, so it's probably due to minor driveshaft harmonics getting into the 205.
I will tell you that back in the nineties, I took a 203 shifter apart and cleaned it completely then lubricated it with grease for my Dad's truck. It worked well after that, even after 20 years of getting the whole truck muddy during hunting. It wasn't a terrible job from what I remember, but I wouldn't be able to tell you how to do it without hands on it.
Your shifter looks pretty good compared to ones that I have taken out of trucks, but could there be an internal problem? You will have to determine that.
I will tell you that back in the nineties, I took a 203 shifter apart and cleaned it completely then lubricated it with grease for my Dad's truck. It worked well after that, even after 20 years of getting the whole truck muddy during hunting. It wasn't a terrible job from what I remember, but I wouldn't be able to tell you how to do it without hands on it.
Your shifter looks pretty good compared to ones that I have taken out of trucks, but could there be an internal problem? You will have to determine that.
Im going to mess with it. But at this point I dont really have the $ to fix or upgrade. I just put on new exhaust. Im going to just give a few sprays of break clean in there, followed with the teflon type spray in lube.
It seems the only hangup is going into the gears towards the dash. But once all the way or one past N it drives. In the gear I bought it in and have used since purchase, shown in my pictures. Ill mess with going into Hi Hi loc on my days off.
Plenty of great info in this thread and I do appreciate all who took time to help and offer suggestions.
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I'm waiting on someone to show up, and actually have a decent internet connection, so I thought I would jump in one more time with some info.
I run Fords, and its been about 30 years since I did anything with a 203, so if I'm wrong, someone will correct me.
Here is what should happen with your transfer case.
First, all the shift things I am going to say, are with the front hubs unlocked, and the transmission in park.
First: Stock box, no conversion:
All the way back towards the seat, is Hi Loc. Front and rear driveshafts are locked together, front shaft will not turn by hand.
Next detent toward the dash, Hi, no loc. This is where you would normally drive, front shaft will still not turn by hand.
Next, Neutral. Front shaft will turn by hand, truck will not drive off.
Next, Lo. Front shaft will not turn, will drive off but slowly.
Last, all the way toward the dash, Lo Loc. Front shaft will not turn, truck will drive, but not to be used on hard surface roads.
Next, a converted box, which we think you have.
All the way back to the seat, Hi 4wd. Truck will drive, front driveshaft will not turn by hand.
First detent toward dash, Hi 2wd. Truck will drive, and front driveshaft will turn by hand.
Next, Neutral. Same as above. Shaft will turn, truck will not drive.
Next, Lo 2wd. Shaft will turn, truck will drive slowly.
Last all the way forward, Lo 4wd. Shaft will not turn, truck will drive.
Remember all those shaft comments are with the transmission in park.
In shifting, some trucks, maybe Fords, been a long time, you had to move the shift lever to the side to go from 2wd, both versions, to neutral and on up to lo.
In other words, you could shift from 2 hi to 2 loc and back, but you had to push sideways, toward the driver to shift farther up.
Also, if you can see down from the top, there are two shift shafts coming out of the box that the shifter engages.
One of them, I think the driver side, only moves between two positions, in and out. Its the loc rod, and only moves when going from one of the loc positions to the non-loc positions.
The other rod has three positions. Hi, Neutral, and Lo.
So, if you were to start with the shifter all the way back, which is either Hi Loc, or Hi 4wd depending on converted or not, then moving the shifter up one should cause the left rod to move only.
Next position, the right rod would move one space only. Loc rod will not move.
Next, right rod only again,
Last, only the left rod going back to where it started when the lever was all the way back.
Hope some of that helps.
I run Fords, and its been about 30 years since I did anything with a 203, so if I'm wrong, someone will correct me.
Here is what should happen with your transfer case.
First, all the shift things I am going to say, are with the front hubs unlocked, and the transmission in park.
First: Stock box, no conversion:
All the way back towards the seat, is Hi Loc. Front and rear driveshafts are locked together, front shaft will not turn by hand.
Next detent toward the dash, Hi, no loc. This is where you would normally drive, front shaft will still not turn by hand.
Next, Neutral. Front shaft will turn by hand, truck will not drive off.
Next, Lo. Front shaft will not turn, will drive off but slowly.
Last, all the way toward the dash, Lo Loc. Front shaft will not turn, truck will drive, but not to be used on hard surface roads.
Next, a converted box, which we think you have.
All the way back to the seat, Hi 4wd. Truck will drive, front driveshaft will not turn by hand.
First detent toward dash, Hi 2wd. Truck will drive, and front driveshaft will turn by hand.
Next, Neutral. Same as above. Shaft will turn, truck will not drive.
Next, Lo 2wd. Shaft will turn, truck will drive slowly.
Last all the way forward, Lo 4wd. Shaft will not turn, truck will drive.
Remember all those shaft comments are with the transmission in park.
In shifting, some trucks, maybe Fords, been a long time, you had to move the shift lever to the side to go from 2wd, both versions, to neutral and on up to lo.
In other words, you could shift from 2 hi to 2 loc and back, but you had to push sideways, toward the driver to shift farther up.
Also, if you can see down from the top, there are two shift shafts coming out of the box that the shifter engages.
One of them, I think the driver side, only moves between two positions, in and out. Its the loc rod, and only moves when going from one of the loc positions to the non-loc positions.
The other rod has three positions. Hi, Neutral, and Lo.
So, if you were to start with the shifter all the way back, which is either Hi Loc, or Hi 4wd depending on converted or not, then moving the shifter up one should cause the left rod to move only.
Next position, the right rod would move one space only. Loc rod will not move.
Next, right rod only again,
Last, only the left rod going back to where it started when the lever was all the way back.
Hope some of that helps.
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Ok, i sprayed a healthy dose of break clean from up top and from below. What is confusing me, is that according to posts here. With the shifter all the way towards the dash I should have a wine above 25mph, which I dont.
You can feel 4 detents if you shift slowly and controlled with some arm muscle. Hopefully this video demonstrates what Im saying.
I do have the conversion. So i may be using the wrong terms for what gear I put the Tcase in.
The last 8 seconds is the cleanest shift
You can feel 4 detents if you shift slowly and controlled with some arm muscle. Hopefully this video demonstrates what Im saying.
I do have the conversion. So i may be using the wrong terms for what gear I put the Tcase in.
The last 8 seconds is the cleanest shift
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Here is me shifting while hopefully getting good enough footage?
I personally don't believe that you are getting low range. I honestly wonder if there is a problem in the T-case shifter because it doesn't seem to push the range section towards the rear of the truck very far. I wonder if the reason that the shifter was so clean is because someone had it apart trying to fix it. It does look like you are getting the front output to lock and unlock.
With the engine off like that, you don't need be concerned about leaving in park, but you may need to twist the rear driveshaft back and forth to let things line up to get low range. Those are helical cut gears, but they may need a little movement to line up and change ranges.
I honestly think that you are only getting high range, high lock and possibly neutral . So until you want or need low range, I don't believe that you have a problem, just check that you don't have the front output locked in for street driving.
I would disconnect the shifter linkage from the outer lever of the transfer case, and see if you get more movement of that lever than the shifter is able to do.
With the engine off like that, you don't need be concerned about leaving in park, but you may need to twist the rear driveshaft back and forth to let things line up to get low range. Those are helical cut gears, but they may need a little movement to line up and change ranges.
I honestly think that you are only getting high range, high lock and possibly neutral . So until you want or need low range, I don't believe that you have a problem, just check that you don't have the front output locked in for street driving.
I would disconnect the shifter linkage from the outer lever of the transfer case, and see if you get more movement of that lever than the shifter is able to do.
Welp, if anyone here has what I have. Maybe they can upload pic of the angle of their shifter in each gear.
I think that mine should go forward one more detent or not.
I feel 4 engagements. I would think you should feel 5.
Will it drive with the case in Neutral?
If it cant, then Im in at least -lo-
Because I can drive with it how it is with the Tcase shifter as forward to the dash as I can get it.
By “front output locked” for street driving, you mean the hubs?
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The front output is the front driveshaft, going to the front axle. It should be free spinning for the street.
I only have the range case of a 203 in mine, so no factory shifter. I may be able to get a picture this weekend. Hopefully someone will get some pictures of their factory stuff.
And no, if it actually puts the transfer case in neutral, it won't put power to the axle.
I only have the range case of a 203 in mine, so no factory shifter. I may be able to get a picture this weekend. Hopefully someone will get some pictures of their factory stuff.
And no, if it actually puts the transfer case in neutral, it won't put power to the axle.
OK, first of all, let me clear up one misunderstanding.
Forget the "whine" you read about the low range.
The whine they were talking about is not the transmission or transfer case, its the engine. In low range, the system is geared so low, that your engine will sound like its about to blow over about 25 or 30. I have a 205 in my truck, and once wound it out in low range. I don't remember which has the lower gear, but they are close. My engine redlined at 40. In other words, that was as fast as the truck could go, and I was risking engine damage going that fast.
If you can cruise at 40 and above, you are NOT in low range, no matter where the lever is pointing
Forget the "whine" you read about the low range.
The whine they were talking about is not the transmission or transfer case, its the engine. In low range, the system is geared so low, that your engine will sound like its about to blow over about 25 or 30. I have a 205 in my truck, and once wound it out in low range. I don't remember which has the lower gear, but they are close. My engine redlined at 40. In other words, that was as fast as the truck could go, and I was risking engine damage going that fast.
If you can cruise at 40 and above, you are NOT in low range, no matter where the lever is pointing
Right, well I figured it was the engine even if I misspoke in the vid, which I may have
From what I gather (but I may be wrong) browsing around. is an un-modded np203 you should have 5 detents to shift into. In the modded (which I have part time conversion) np203 you have 3.
In the modded np203 you dont shift into lo-loc or hi-loc. You shift into lo and hi and it becomes “loc” by locking the hubs. Correct? Or does the modded np203 tcase still have 5 detents to shift into?
From another site they speak of shifting into 5 very distinguishable gears in a stock np203.
Again with shifter all the way to the driver both drive shafts cannot be spun by hand, one click forward towards dash, both drive shafts cannot be spun by hand. One more click towards dash, only the rear spins by hand. After that I have no further detens to go into going towards the dash
Is there any other site recommended to gain further knowledge on this np203 stock and the conversion functions?
In the modded np203 you dont shift into lo-loc or hi-loc. You shift into lo and hi and it becomes “loc” by locking the hubs. Correct? Or does the modded np203 tcase still have 5 detents to shift into?
From another site they speak of shifting into 5 very distinguishable gears in a stock np203.
Again with shifter all the way to the driver both drive shafts cannot be spun by hand, one click forward towards dash, both drive shafts cannot be spun by hand. One more click towards dash, only the rear spins by hand. After that I have no further detens to go into going towards the dash
Is there any other site recommended to gain further knowledge on this np203 stock and the conversion functions?
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You still have 5 positions, the loc positions put power to the front driveshaft and you would need to lock the hubs in order to have 4 wheel drive.
Since you don't have more detent positions and your videos show that your linkage to the range section isn't getting full movement, I still say that your shifter has a problem. It doesn't seem like you are getting neutral or low range.
Since you don't have more detent positions and your videos show that your linkage to the range section isn't getting full movement, I still say that your shifter has a problem. It doesn't seem like you are getting neutral or low range.
