Truck Avenger vs TBI

[hero]

Yes this is a carb vs tbi just like the other thread but I didn't want to hijack his thread since this is somewhat different. With that said, what are your thoughts on this. I've got a friend that will give me a tbi setup off of a 90 sub. Currently I'm running a carb and I'm having the usual problems on hills. I was going to go with a Holley truck avenger before he offered up the tbi.

To change to the tbi I would need an elect. fuel pump and probably pick up a few new sensors. I'm guesssing I'll spend $150 - $200 to convert to the tbi, while the carb is around $400.

It seems like the tbi is the way to go, but I'm not so sure because I need to find a place to keep the computer dry and I need a different distributor along with a bunch of wires etc to worry about that I didn't before Install time is going to be WAY longer and more complicated than the 10 minutes it will take to swap carbs. Just for the cleanness, simplicity and ease of install I'm not so sure that the tbi is the better choice, plus will I have tons of problems if I change cams and do some head work? I know how to change jets, but I've never done any efi work. What do you guys think?

 

[stockk5]

heyy well since ur in the same boat as me... if u do end up staying carb... i'd def like the tbi set up from u...

 

[jeff101]

I would say that if you are going to be doing any steep hills or offcamber wheeling definetly go with the tbi. I went with howell tbi after trying to get a avenger carb to work properly with no luck , I have heard that holley fixed the prob. but it sure is a nice piece of mind knowing that your motor is not going to flood at a time when you really need it to run.
JEFF

 

[BadDog]

It depends on what you want.

The Holley is more flexible to work with different engine configs, hotter cams, and so on. But it can't handle angles and altitude changes like a closed circuit TBI can.

So, for max off-road ability, particularly for rock crawlers (angles, climbs, etc.) and ability to travel from Denver or Flagstaff to Death Valley without negative impact (other than just altitude power loss), go with a TBI or other EFI. But your limited in what you can do to the motor without custom chips, over-sized TBs, and so on...

For max power in a trail rig or mud slinger, the Avenger would be the better choice. Or better still, a good Q-Jet which can make the power AND (AFAIK) handle angles better than the avenger.

 

[dyeager535]

If you aren't getting the setup complete, unless what you are getting is 100% free, (and you aren't in a hurry) I wouldn't consider it.

Adding things like the distributor, fuel tank sender, baffled fuel tank, fuel lines, wiring and so on adds up extremely fast and makes a good deal on initial parts a ripoff in the long run.


I suspect you are nowhere near correct in your $ expenditure figures for a non-complete TBI swap.

 

[BadDog]

Dorian has a good point, all those little things add up in both time and money more than you ever thought possible.

 

[RootBreaker]

my truck avenger is in constant need of adjusting.... if I dont get the bbc that I am supposed to get which is tbi.. im going to keep my truck avenger...

I really like it.. the only issues i have had is choke seems to be off at times... also carb loads up a bit from time to time and the dreaded dead spot from a stop.. however since I drive @ WOT I dont notice it much

 

[RootBreaker]

oh yeah.. a few movies you can hear my truck in... tell me where the deadspot is... sorry no real awesome action shots... next summer there will be as im still building and driving...cant thrash as not ready for it

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Q-jets run absoulutely awesome at angles, can make all the power you want, and are pretty much free (they are on pretty much every older Chevy truck, van, car, etc in the junkyard). Keep that as another option.

 

[MTMike]

I have a Holly Projection 4D TBI System on my stroker and it's awesome. I love being able to descend & climb extremely steep hills without the stalling, sputtering & smoking that the carb guys are dealing with. There's nothing worse than stalling out while descending a 45 degree hill and losing your power brakes.

 

[hero]

Thanks guys. Yeah I had considered the qjet as another option, but I ALWAYS seem to have bad luck with them, rebuilt or not. Supposedly the truck avenger will work at pretty severe angles, so I would think it would be a reasonable comparison to the TBI. It's just for trail use, not competative rock climbing, athough I definatly don't avoid the rocks, and will spend some time on them as well as on steep hills.

Regarding the TBI, I can get the wiring harness, computer and possibly dist. For a fuel pump I was going to use an inline pump. They seem to be around $100. I guess maybe my biggest hangup with the TBI is all of the wiring and keeping the computer dry. I just don't want to be stuck somewhere because I got something wet, or spend forever installing the thing. Is it not as bad as it seems? You guys have brought up some good points but I'm still stuck riding the fence on this.

 

[RootBreaker]

For a fuel pump I was going to use an inline pump. They seem to be around $100.

Got mine from autozone for like $30... aftermarket... el cheapo and works great.... I had to go electric because of no pin on cam for mechanical.... also works good as I have a kill switch on the fuel pump.. next is on the ignition.. I can tell ya this as you dont know which switches...

I guess maybe my biggest hangup with the TBI is all of the wiring and keeping the computer dry. I just don't want to be stuck somewhere because I got something wet, or spend forever installing the thing. Is it not as bad as it seems? You guys have brought up some good points but I'm still stuck riding the fence on this.

I always felt the same way but now im debating the tbi and wiring way... however yeah I like my truck dumb....

 

[theperfectgarage]

The tbi conversion is not that tough, dont let 'em scare you. Yes the add on's add up, but it's still less then the new carb. you will like the TBI so much more. Im kinda new on this site so I dont know If it's ok to post my e-mail address but if it is let me know on this thread and I will gladley post it so you can contact me personally to guide you thru the conversion and your options. I mount the ecm up under the dash nice and dry.

 

[BadDog]

Sure, no problem with your email. You should also fill out your profile (including email) so that people know more where you're coming from. Welcome aboard!

BTW, the Edel Q-Jet performer cost similar to the Holley Avenger (AFAIK) and will work better for extreme off-road angles and jarring. The Holley Avenger is much better off-road that most anything that came before (particularly from Holley) but from what I've seen the q-jet still reigns among the carbs on the more "hard core" obstacles.

 

[79chevyk10]

Thanks guys. Yeah I had considered the qjet as another option, but I ALWAYS seem to have bad luck with them, rebuilt or not. Supposedly the truck avenger will work at pretty severe angles, so I would think it would be a reasonable comparison to the TBI. It's just for trail use, not competative rock climbing, athough I definatly don't avoid the rocks, and will spend some time on them as well as on steep hills.

Regarding the TBI, I can get the wiring harness, computer and possibly dist. For a fuel pump I was going to use an inline pump. They seem to be around $100. I guess maybe my biggest hangup with the TBI is all of the wiring and keeping the computer dry. I just don't want to be stuck somewhere because I got something wet, or spend forever installing the thing. Is it not as bad as it seems? You guys have brought up some good points but I'm still stuck riding the fence on this.

I have also have had bad luck with Q-jets working on steep angles, they have always flooded on me with really steep nose up stuff. I even rebuilt the q-jet and sealed all the plugs and bottom of the fuel bowl. The carb ran awesome except for steep hill climbs. I even tried installing bowl vent risers with no luck. Purchased a Truck Avenger and hands down it is much better than the Q-jet ever was. Has never flooded out or stalled on steep stuff. Although the fuel milage sucks and needed turning like they all do. But like mentioned before, the high altitude affects on the Truck Avenger is more of an issue than the Q-jet. Carb needs retuning at elevation to run perfect (Although I ran Rubicon (7000 ft) with my sea level tuning and just lived with the not so perfect running). Now I'm about to go to TBI, should have a donor vehicle soon (maybe today if I can work the price right). I will have to change the heads (center bolts are a different angle than carb heads) and install a cam that will run with a TBI. So bottom line you should give me your TBI and I'll sell you my Truck Avenger for cheap. JK LOL
Hope all that rambling will help you make the right choice for your application.

 

[79chevyk10]

Sure, no problem with your email. You should also fill out your profile (including email) so that people know more where you're coming from. Welcome aboard!

BTW, the Edel Q-Jet performer cost similar to the Holley Avenger (AFAIK) and will work better for extreme off-road angles and jarring. The Holley Avenger is much better off-road that most anything that came before (particularly from Holley) but from what I've seen the q-jet still reigns among the carbs on the more "hard core" obstacles.

I hear that alot hear on this board...I even tried different Q-jets and still had stalling out on stuff the Truck Avenger wouldn't. I'm not saying that the Holley is better or the Q-jet is junk. I'm just wondering WTF was up with my 2 Q-jets I ran before the Holley Truck Avenger????

 

[BadDog]

Hmm, not sure. Just different experiences I guess. I've had q-jets that ran flawlessly at any angle less than what you would roll a full body. That is personal experience. And I've seen Avengers act up at what seemed less than what I've run q-jets. <shrug> Maybe I was lucky with the q-jet and just never saw an avenger that was "right"? Who knows? All I can comment on is what I see, which just happens to be opposite of what you've seen. Really no different that some guys having crap luck with a GM, then their replacement Ford is flawless talking to a guy who had the opposite experience. Too many variables (including luck) to be sure of much of anything...

 

[79chevyk10]

I hear ya.......I don't know either. I do know this though, I'll take a turd chevy over a furd anyday.

 

[mrk5]

And I've seen Avengers act up at what seemed less than what I've run q-jets. <shrug> Maybe I was lucky with the q-jet and just never saw an avenger that was "right"?

From what I'm learning with my Avenger, Holley is still perfecting the design. I just sent them mine in exchange for a newer version. And if I'm understanding my research, this one I'm getting is the 3rd version they've produced.

 

[hero]

Now I'm about to go to TBI, should have a donor vehicle soon (maybe today if I can work the price right). I will have to change the heads (center bolts are a different angle than carb heads) and install a cam that will run with a TBI.

There is an adapter plate that you can put on the bolt a TBI to a regular carb intake manifold. It was around $20 or $30 from summit. TransDapt is who makes it. This would save you from having to change heads and intake.

I find it interesting that you now have a truck avenger and are going to switch to TBI. Why? Is it because of the elevation changes or did it still cut out on you on hills? Elevevation isn't much of a problem for me, I have to drive for 5 + hours to go from 1000' to 3000'. No mountains in Nebraska.