CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

What Do You Consider To Be A Respectable Crawl Ratio?

haha seeing as the tranny, tcase, and axles are the only things that change the ratio no nothing else. With my 4 speed, if I went to a doubler I'd have a 134:1 ratio, thats with the 5.13s I have, installed. If I installed an Atlas tcase I could get a 144:1 crawl ratio. I think next time I build a rig I will have a crawl ratio of like 150:1, buggy with a Turbo 350, Klune V(reason DBlazer has such a low ratio) but mine would probably be a 2.72 version, an Atlas 4.3, and 5.13s.
 
[ QUOTE ]
ah, something is preventing me to beable to rock crawl, big engine in the planning, and tiny crawl ratio /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Read your profile boss, you are building a mud runner,

big engine + high ratio + throttle = mud runner.

engine of any kind + low ratio - throttle = rock crawler.
 
I *personally* don't see why you'd ever need that much. There is such a thing as overkill.

I can say that I wouldn't mind a little more crawl ratio though. It would help my control on the rocks quite a bit.

50% more and it would certainly be too much in my opinion.
 
I know it says that about mud, but a few months ago after I was joined here for a few months, I saw enough pics of people rock crawling, and whatnot I wanted to do that too. So in other words, it will suck to crawl with what I want, right?
 
No such thing as overkill crawl ratio since all you have to do is run one (or both) of the cases in high to be back to where you used to be before a doubler (or Klune, etc.).
 
well I was also thinking thats a bit much. Its a matter of I wouldn't want to go down from what I have now to say the least. And an auto setup like a lot of these guys would be a step down. A TH350 or 400 with a klune v and a NP241 would be pretty nice(just under 100:1) but I think that would be too much torque through a 241.
 
A lot of it depends on driver skill and tire size (among other things), but I think 50:1 won't cut it unless your engine is built to lug down real well (i.e. diesel or big block built for low rpm use). The average gas engine that I have seen does not work real well without a lower crawl ratio than that.
 
Personally I'd consider changing axle ratios. I plan to mud, no one says you can't mud with a "rock crawler". It is a lot harder to crawl with a "mud runner" though. 50:1 could work well. I've crawled with it, if I had decent tires and lockers doing it it would have been nice. As you see a lot of people here use about a 50:1 with plenty of success.
 
you know you may be right, whenever I have crawled with a 50:1 ratio, I clutch slipped a lot to crawl well. It took a lot and I hated it, and basically that is increasing my crawl ratio.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No such thing as overkill crawl ratio since all you have to do is run one (or both) of the cases in high to be back to where you used to be before a doubler (or Klune, etc.).

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case you don't have overkill, you just have something impractial and you wasted your money.

I suppose its like anything, and once you've got some, you always want more. I bet once I change to the 5.13s that will be cool for a while and then I'll want more, and then the crawler boxes will be looking like a good idea.

Until then, I'm pretty happy at 52:1. More would be ideal, but having more than the auto guys is a good start.
 
How is it a waste of money, I did not say that you would never run in low-low, I said that at times when its not needed you can basically turn it off. I have NEVER heard anybody complain of having too low a CR and have NEVER seen those with a really low CR not use it frequently. You'l learn someday, and that day you will be ordering up a doubler (or equivalent).
 
Yeah you're probably right. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Like I said, I'm changing my gears, once I do that, I'll want more, then there comes the crawler box. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
Does anyone know the pricing of the Klune V gear boxes? I was looking at the "David" and it said it shouldn't be ran behind a big block. Then I looked at the "Goliath" and it said it would be okay, but only has the 2.47, instead of 4:1 like the "David" or doubler /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
There are a LOT of variables here, terrain, driving style, engine type and torque output vs. RPM range, tire size, vehicle weight, .......

In general, to compare driving an auto tranny rig with a manual rig, you're not far off calling the torque converter a 2:1 multiplier, so that evens the numbers out a bit more.

I had figured out one time that if you convert all the gearing into a standard number like inches of travel per engine revolution you could standardize a lot of the variables but I don't want to think about that right now. It's probably available for a search though.

Rigs I've played with:
My K5 with 3.73's, 33" tires, 208/700 = 29:1 and it worked pretty well for general offroad use, not much serious rock work, just general camping and trail rides.

My K5 with the same drivetrain but with 4.56's. Once again not much serious rock time but good for general use at 35.5:1 with 33's.

My K5 with a 205 instead of the 208 = 27.36:1 run with 35-36" tires. I played in Moab with it a good bit and it did OK but it was hard on the torque converter and I never got into really big slow stuff, mostly all faster moving obstacles.

My K5 with the Doubler, TH700 and 4.56 = 55:1 with up to a 37" tire. I never wanted for more gear offroad, I could have used deeper axle gears for cruising on the highway but the offroad part was covered.

My K5 with 700/Doubler and 5.13s with 42's = 62:1 I've been in a couple of isolated situations where I could use either a lower gear or a smaller cam in the motor but overall it's done. I don't always use the 4:1 low, in looser stuff I often shift up to 2:1 for more wheel spin.

My Sub with 700/241 and 4.56 with 35's = 37:1. I don't do serious boulders with it so it works just fine for general trail use and even some Moab style crawling.

Most of my manual trans driving experience is with compact trucks (S10 and Tacoma) in stock form doing relatively hard rock trails and I can tell you for sure that the stock gearing in those trucks was not OK for any kind of crawling. I got it done but the clutches smelled or we went too fast over obstacles, even given the fact that they had open diffs and I needed to move kind of fast. This opposed to my K5 with stock gearing or my 'burb with stock gearing and autos that are MUCH smoother and easier to drive.

Beck's buggy is 41:1 and miniwally is 51:1 and both do well on 42's. Beck has a harder time going slow, just as you would predict from the numbers but it's very usable.

So there's some experiences to look at.

A big factor that trusty brings to light is engine torque, his diesel has plenty of low end torque and can idle pretty slow and stay running so it's easy to get by with a bit higher crawl ratio. A toyota motor with no torque usually need at least double the crawl to get the same work done.

I've also seen differences that were less obvious to anticipate. When I first went to the Doubler, I was running a carb and it helped keep the carb happy in some situations to have the engine running more RPM since it kept the vacuum signal stronger and any sloshing fuel burned off.

Terrain? Mud and sloppy stuff typically requires more motor and wheelspin so deeper gears won't do as much good. As I mentioned before, I use 2:1 low a good bit for getting the right "bump" on ledges and for running in loose, slick terrain or really steep rock. On the same note, on big boulder trails I wouldn't make it without the 4:1. So one low gear is seldom the answer for everything.
 
Stephen,
With your 62:1 ratio in 4:1, how is it? I have seen some of your pics and I was amazed, I thought you had a higher crawl ratio, near 100 or over. Thanks
 
[ QUOTE ]
Terrain? Mud and sloppy stuff typically requires more motor and wheelspin so deeper gears won't do as much good. As I mentioned before, I use 2:1 low a good bit for getting the right "bump" on ledges and for running in loose, slick terrain or really steep rock. On the same note, on big boulder trails I wouldn't make it without the 4:1. So one low gear is seldom the answer for everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more myself.

I suppose this is the biggest selling point of all for your doubler, not just a better ratio, but a CHOICE of ratios as well.

Completley summed up my thoughts in that paragrapgh.
 
Lets see.
3.9x2.28x2.28x4.88 = 98.93
Maybe one day I can afford the 4.7's in one of the cases and then I'll be at 206.1 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Idle will be 1/3 of a mile per hour. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif
 
Top Bottom