What happened to the 2 strokes?

[dirtwarrior17]

he took something and stuck it right in the exhaust.... don't know what its called.

IF my figures changed it wasn't by much.... i know for a fact the evinrude 2 strokes are the cleanest on the market of the outboards and its by a longshot.

 

[Robert79K5]

uh you seem to be forgetting the two strokes your comparing your quad to are twice as small... ride a 400cc two stroke and then compare the tq...

uh no im not forgetting anything. Im talking about how a two stroke fires on every revolution so it has twice the opertunity to build power for any given RPM. Reguardless of what size the engine is.

If your refering to actual weight and dimensions of the four wheeler itself then the two strokes should have even more of an advantage. If you go and read my post you will understand my point was that a two stroke of smaller displacement should be able to make more power than a four stroke but I still wouldn't want a two stroke even of the same displacement and size as my four stroke for what I do with it reguardless of how much torque you think it would make.

And don't look for two strokes to make a big comeback. I know evenrude makes great boat motors but that is their business and they have a legitimate concern for dumping cash into R&D on two strokes. Even though they developed a good two stroke technology the auto makers will not want to dump funds into designing completely new engines for their cars to adapt the technology to. They will be putting their funds into making their four strokes cleaner and developing a/f engines. Sorry but its as much of a business decision as it is anything else.

 

[BlueBlazer]

IF my figures changed it wasn't by much.... i know for a fact the evinrude 2 strokes are the cleanest on the market of the outboards and its by a longshot.

Oh, I wasn't aware you had your own emissions testing facility. Sorry for questioning your supreme knowledge.

 

[BlueBlazer]

I just went to their site, and the only emissions component they talk about it CO and they only compare that to four strokes when at idle. What about the rest of the operating range where the engine actually runs? Then they say it is lower in TOTAL emissions than any other gas engine in its class. I don't know of any regulations that talk about total emissions, it is always in parts like CO, HC, NOx, particulates, and smoke. So just because they are lower in total emissions, there may be multiple emissions components that are much higher than other engines, but the ones that are lower make up for it. It's shady marketing IMO, but everyone does it nowadays. Just don't take their marketing claims hook, line, and sinker and think that two strokes are coming back and are better than four strokes and should be brought back in the automotive market, cause it will never happen and rightly so.

 

[ryoken]

i know for a fact the evinrude 2 strokes are the cleanest on the market of the outboards and its by a longshot.

i wouldn't take much stock in an Evinrude product.. they've been getting there azz's handed to em by the Japs for years... lucky their still in business..

standard carbed 2 stroke outboards suck.. noisy, smokey, undurable motors.. i see this stuff EVERY day. you can't even tell the new 4 strokes are running... fuel injected 2 strokes are just a last gasp.. good riddance i say...

 

[73k5blazer]

The trend in snowmobiles lately is 4 stroke, for emissions. There's several models out there already, and more coming. The first year they came out they sucked performance wise, but I thought I read somewhere that Artic cat's latest 4 stroke beats (talking acceleration/speed here) the same sled/enginesize 2 stroke version.

 

[smalltruckbigcid]

I don't know how fast the new 4 stroke cats are but they are damm quiet and the economy is way better than the 2 stroke.............
George

 

[dirtwarrior17]

numbers were off the top of my head... sorry your hinese

I just see an evinrude e-tech 2 stroke everywhere i look when i'm out on the lake or watching fishing shows. I doubt they are getting their asses handed to em now. Its not just another 2 stroke outboard. All i know is CARB was more than happy to give them their certification.

I don't think 2 strokes will ever be gone... they may take em offf the market but how the hell are they gonna police 2 stroke dirtbikes? I'd love to see a cruiser going after a 250.

 

[rjfguitar]

The trend in snowmobiles lately is 4 stroke, for emissions. There's several models out there already, and more coming. The first year they came out they sucked performance wise, but I thought I read somewhere that Artic cat's latest 4 stroke beats (talking acceleration/speed here) the same sled/enginesize 2 stroke version.

Trail riding is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUUUUCCCCCHHHH.....different than Western deep mountain powder and hill climbing. Out in the north east all they do is run 100mph across lakes and down trails. Weight is not NEARLY a factor like it is to us Western deep powder riders.

Example.
The new Yamaha 2006 Apex 1000cc 4 stroke 4 banger pumps out 150HP. Lots of power and it's a rocket, I won't disagree. Now, take the mountain version with a hefty 162x16" track hung off of it. It weighs in at a bulky 600lbs. That would be your thunder thighs of the mountain sleds.

Take my 2003 Polaris Vertical Escape limited edition. It has 150HP ot 2 stroke twin power, a nearly identical 159x15 track, and weighs in at 488lbs out of the box. That nearly 120lbs is HUGE. There is a reason why all four sled manufacturers cut WAY back on what all their sleds weighed back in around '01-'02, when they relized how much more manueverable a 488 lbs sled was compared to a tank at 600lbs.

Don't think I hate 4 strokes, I prefer my 4 stroke ATV over our 2 stroke ATV anyday. Cleaner burning, more effecient, and more torque. But... in the deep powder and climbing it's a high RPM horsepower race. Most of all I want light weight, tilting that sled up on it's side in 3 feet of powder is what it's all about, the Apex won't do that, it's to freakin' heavy.

 

[rjfguitar]

To you guys who think the two strokes are doomed I have to respectfully disagree ... have you noticed that all the two strokes you say pollute too much are carbed? Evinrude used a very advanced EFI system to make a two stroke cleaner and more powerfull than all the other four strokes on the market... its the way of the future. you see EFI quads popping up... its only a matter of time until dirtbikes(especially two strokes) become efi equipped. Because of evinrudes motors two stroke will be around for a long time to come its just too soon to see any results... they only released the e-tech about 5 months ago.

Electronically controlled 2 strokes are old news, sorry to disapoint you. Once again snowmobiles were on the frontier with 2 strokes.

My 1995 Arctic Cat 580 EXT was fuel injected, smokes like hell..... My new sled that is an '03 800cc that has dual carbes runs cleaner. Almost all the sleds these days are offered from the factory equipped with either carbs or EFI, customers choice. Fuel mileage is slightly better, and emmissions are hardly any better. EFI is an option because it delivers trouble free power at any altitude and doesn't need rejetting, thus making it fairly popular in the sled world.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

I meant its the way of the future on dirtbikes. I think what i'm trying to prove with evinrude isn't going to convince you that two strokes will be around for a long time. Until you see one for yourself and compare it to an older 2 stroke or a newer 4 stroke your won't realize what i'm trying to tell you. They have a "new" way of using two stroke power and getting rid of all the bad things two strokes are known for by using direct injection efi, a custom exhaust system which basically eliminates the noise argument, advanced oil injection system which eliminates the smokey two stroke, and the CARB certification or whatever it is. CARB will tell you themselves its the cleanest outboard on the market. I know blueblazer has a theory on that but regardless the smokey two stroke will become a thing of the past because of evinrudes endless r and d.

Next time your out on the lake look around and see how many e-tech's you can spot. when people look for a new outboard they want the best and a huge percentage of them have decided that evinrude's 2 stroke is it.

the 2 stroke evinrude makes called the e-tech is setting records as far as selling them goes, and they have revolutionized the two strokes future IO.

 

[rjfguitar]

I don't give a crap about boats. I only bother with snowmobiles, ATV's, and 4x4's.

 

[ronnny]

I think they said at work that all of the 2 stroke will be exported by next year or the year after because of emmisions. Don't know much else about it. We don't make any of the 2 stroke atvs just the waverunners all the atvs are 4 stroke that we make. But that is just at our facilty.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

I don't give a crap about boats. I only bother with snowmobiles, ATV's, and 4x4's.

Lmao.... i give up...

I guess ignorance is bliss...

I was saying that technology will make its way into snowmobiles, atvs, etc.

 

[85scottsdale]

Heres a comparison for ya. 125CC Suzuki RM125 2 stroke VS My 2001 Honda Sportrax 400ex 4 stroke. The RM125 is piped my 400ex stock. Dead even drag race until I hit 5th gear and I pull away because of gearing. I hit 67mph top-end turning 9k rpm.

The RM125 is WAY lighter being a smaller dirt bike, my 400ex weighs 375 lbs dry I think.

My 400ex is about even with a 250cc 4 stroke dirt bike depending on the motor, all motors are certainly not created equally lol.

I love my 400cc 4-stroke quad though, MUCH less maintenance and its a lot quieter which for trail riding I prefer, and its got enough power to satisfy me even stock.

But, 2 strokes are still pretty much doomed, I think 4-strokes are better, even thought 2-strokes make a lot more power out of less displacement and weight savings. For me the maintenance, smoothness and quietness of a 4-stroke is better than the 2-strokes.

I still have 2 2-stroke jet skis though, one of which needs some work, it smokes A LOT, their other one runs pretty clean. But the one thats smokes a lot also has some performance mods, which I don't know what are, I suspect it has reeds in the motor and some intake work.

 

[85jimmy3/4ton]

Only one real reason why they quit making 2 strokes- (E.P.A.) -- Emissions regulations will probably phase out two stroke MX bikes and Sleds within the next 10 years kinda sucks I think

 

[tiger9297]

Only one real reason why they quit making 2 strokes- (E.P.A.) -- Emissions regulations will probably phase out two stroke MX bikes and Sleds within the next 10 years kinda sucks I think

I agree. If two strokes are banned it will NOT be good. Technology can produce clean running two strokes. And by the way, I don't think the old two strokes caused enough pollution to matter. This is nothing more than the EPA running through it's checklist of things to ban. They just happen to be down to two strokes right now. It will be a long way off but soon they will push for ALL autos to be hybrids b/c a straight gas burner will produce too much emissions and burn too much fuel. This is just like the anti-gun crowd who keeps pushing ever so slowly to what they really want which is the banning of ALL firearms. To these EPA bozos the gasoline engine is destroying the world. I wonder what's next on their checklist.