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Whats your opinion on a methanol injected tbi 355?

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beastofablaze

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I was reading up on methanol injection and it turns out this stuff is about a dollar cheaper then gas or you can even use windshield wiper fluid. Snow performance sells a kit for 300.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=27847

Sounds like a good way to run 13:1 compression on a dd but it looks like this kit only injects at a certain amount of throttle.

I would like to have a reliable efi n/a sb capable of 450 plus hp using afr 180cc alumnum street heads and higher compression with methanol seems like a fairly reasonable way to do it. Motor has stock crank so n20 is out of the question as well as a forced induction setup. I want this thing to last, pass smog, and be a monster of a sb at the same time. Its alot to ask but I believe its possible. I can tune it out to stoich with the prominator and I think methanol burns alot cleaner. edelbrocks mpfi will support 500 horses and it is 50 state legal as well as the afrs.

Does anybody know anything about this kit or a kit that runs full time instead of part time?
 
methanol fuel is probly the most viable fuel of the future, operating well in internal combustion engines (INDY car racing, CART, and i believe formula 1) as well as dirt track and other off road racing. also methanol can be used as a hydrogen carrier for fuel cells.

the downside is that the system you are looking at still requires you to run gasoline and the methanol acts as an intercooler and octain booster. with just that setup it is HIGHLY unlikely that you could pull off the 13:1 compression.

If you want a methanol fueled engine pure without gasoline, you will have to modify the entire fuel delivery system with all stainless steel or aluminum parts. gasoline acts like WD40 on the metal surfaces and keeps them from rusting. methanol, as an alcohol evaporates completely letting surface rust form, and when any moisture mixes it has a tendacy to gel. so expect to replace just about youre entire fuel delivery system.

oh and the optimal compression for a methanol engine is 19.5:1 so you could go well beyond the 13:1 you were looking at.

although with the methanol fueled engine you wouldnt want to run windsheild wiper fluid, youd want something a bit more pure. the methanol from windsheild wiper fluid has water in it to a certain degree and will gel if left in the gas tank for long periods of time.
 
wow... didn't realise 120 octane could handle that kind of compression... that being said if I were to find a kit that would use gas and methanol running about 50/50 on gas and methanol would 13 or 14 to 1 be feasable?
 
beastofablaze said:
Does anybody know anything about this kit or a kit that runs full time instead of part time?
Click to expand...

You would blow through it in about a mile. Methanol(when used as the primary fuel source) requires a much richer mixture. Stoich for Methanol is 6.5:1!!!! Thats less than HALF that of Gasoline. That means to make the same use of it you'd have to burn OVER TWICE the amount of Methanol. It is NOT a viable option for daily driving useage.

Methanol injection is good for forced induction guys. THey use it to lower intake charge temperature. Makes it denser and will make more power at a given boost setting.

On an N/A motor with THAT much compression, you'd have to run the Methanol anytime the engine was running, and figure out a way to meter it with throttle levels(like fuel is metered by a carb or fuel injection system). Like I said, if you have like a 2 gallon container for it, it would be gone FAST.
 
beastofablaze said:
wow... didn't realise 120 octane could handle that kind of compression... that being said if I were to find a kit that would use gas and methanol running about 50/50 on gas and methanol would 13 or 14 to 1 be feasable?
Click to expand...
Methanol is more than just octane. It burns MUCH cooler than gasoline. I've known circle track racers who had trouble getting their engines up to temp when running on alcohol. It just wouldn't warm up. Less heat = less pre-ignition.

Here is a quote from this article:
The HC, CO and NOX emissions produced by methanol are a little less than those produced by gasoline, but like propane the HC emissions are the lighter molecules that are less reactive. So that's why you hear statements like "methanol is 30 to 50% cleaner than gasoline." But methanol makes some nasty emissions of its own, namely formaldehyde which is 10 times higher than gasoline. A modified catalytic converter is needed to limit these emissions.
Click to expand...
 
well looks like its back to the drawing board for me. I guess I could live with 420 hp or somewhere around there. Just seemed like a cool concept. One of the reasons I was drawn to it was the temp drop in the intake charge and I know of a few guys on thirdgen running it and I believe they have blowers but I saw the n/a kit and had to ask.
 
If you are interested in renewable fuel, biofuel, or just saving money on fuel, and doing an engine swap is not a problem for you. concider doing a diesel swap. The diesel will run on biodiesel made from any number of sources. something im looking into is a system from freedom fuels where you can pick up the used cooking vegitable oil from the local fast food shop, and with some methanol and lye you can make your own biodiesel in 20 or 40 gallon batches. runs in the engine with no modifications, and if i remember right it costs either .75 cents per gallon or 1.75, something like that when its all said and done. and if you run a turbo diesel, you can still run the methanol injection setup to run under heavy loads like towing or going up steep hills. and it will act like an intercooler and octain booster.

the cool thing is that when you use the french fry oil for fuel, your exhaust smells like french fries. the fuel is also better for the engine overall than good ol number 2.

freedom fuels webpage is www.freedomfuels.net
 
K5dreamer said:
If you are interested in renewable fuel, biofuel, or just saving money on fuel, and doing an engine swap is not a problem for you. concider doing a diesel swap. The diesel will run on biodiesel made from any number of sources. something im looking into is a system from freedom fuels where you can pick up the used cooking vegitable oil from the local fast food shop, and with some methanol and lye you can make your own biodiesel in 20 or 40 gallon batches. runs in the engine with no modifications, and if i remember right it costs either .75 cents per gallon or 1.75, something like that when its all said and done. and if you run a turbo diesel, you can still run the methanol injection setup to run under heavy loads like towing or going up steep hills. and it will act like an intercooler and octain booster.

the cool thing is that when you use the french fry oil for fuel, your exhaust smells like french fries. the fuel is also better for the engine overall than good ol number 2.

freedom fuels webpage is www.freedomfuels.net
Click to expand...

he seems more interested in a way to make a lot of power on a reliable street engine. IMO with TBI, its pointless. Upgrade to a multiport injection system and its gonna be a lot easier than it ever would be with TBI.
 
K5dreamer said:
If you are interested in renewable fuel, biofuel, or just saving money on fuel, and doing an engine swap is not a problem for you. concider doing a diesel swap. The diesel will run on biodiesel made from any number of sources. something im looking into is a system from freedom fuels where you can pick up the used cooking vegitable oil from the local fast food shop, and with some methanol and lye you can make your own biodiesel in 20 or 40 gallon batches. runs in the engine with no modifications, and if i remember right it costs either .75 cents per gallon or 1.75, something like that when its all said and done. and if you run a turbo diesel, you can still run the methanol injection setup to run under heavy loads like towing or going up steep hills. and it will act like an intercooler and octain booster.

the cool thing is that when you use the french fry oil for fuel, your exhaust smells like french fries. the fuel is also better for the engine overall than good ol number 2.

freedom fuels webpage is www.freedomfuels.net
Click to expand...

I heard some were that in CA you cant change gas to diesel. so he would be able to smog it.I was thinking of switching but then I heard that
 
NoReGrEtS said:
I heard some were that in CA you cant change gas to diesel. so he would be able to smog it.I was thinking of switching but then I heard that
Click to expand...

Don't believe you are really allowed or suppossed to in any state.
 
sled_dog said:
he seems more interested in a way to make a lot of power on a reliable street engine. IMO with TBI, its pointless. Upgrade to a multiport injection system and its gonna be a lot easier than it ever would be with TBI.
Click to expand...

edelbrocks mpfi will support 500 horses and it is 50 state legal as well as the afrs.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agreed until I found this thing...

www.dynamicefi.com

This thing is awesome makes datalogging alot faster with more graphs and tons of better features then the stock 7747.

This means I could run 2 holley 670 cfm tbis or 1 4bbl unit. But I don't know if I could jimmy it to be smog legal. I was thinking of a setup to bring a 2nd tbi to open up at 50% throttle or even do a manifold swap and switch to 1 tbi every 2 years which would be easy because of the prominator, just flip a switch. I don't know though if I could save the money I could use this ebl setup with mpfi and it would probably be easier with the edebrock system. I'm still on the fence.

My current setup with the holley 670 will support around 375-400 hp depending on the setup.
 
you still have the fact that in the end TBI is an inefficient crappy design.

I think you would be the first to run 2 TBI units... You'd have a lot more programming in the ECM for it to decipher which is which and whats going on between them.
 
inferior design yes, first to run 2 tbi's no. Click on the link and read a little... no programming needed for it to decipher between 2 tbi's. Thats what the first paragraph is about.

Its cheaper than the mpfi but I'm wondering if the ebl is edelbrock mpfi compatable. I like the hole design of the thing. Badass little invention.
 
I was reading up on methanol injection and it turns out this stuff is about a dollar cheaper then gas or you can even use windshield wiper fluid. Snow performance sells a kit for 300.
Click to expand...

hi.. i came across this information as well. you see i've been researching (and perhaps even considering) methanol injection for some time now since i read about it.
 
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