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When wheelin...i turn the steering wheel and the tires dont move??

camarossguy2

camarossguy2

1/2 ton status
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ABQ NM
I searched guys not any conclusive results. I moved from FL (mud) to NM (rocks) i love rocks and its alot of fun.

anyway, on the last couple trips i have been having this problem with my steering. Its getting worse so i know something is going out. If im crawlin and i need to turn, i can trun the wheel to full lock and nothing happens if there is any load/stress on the wheels or im not moving. Even just draggin the a tire against a rock, my spotter would be yelling "turn left, turn left!" And i would be a full lock to the left, look outside and my wheels would be full right. The only way i would make it way to reverse hard and try again


I boiled over my PS fluid once too. Just feels like its getting sloppier and sploppier. Even on the road its all over the place. sometimes the wheel is straigh, other times it 180* off while going straight down the road.


Another thing is my turning radius is about 1/2 of what it used to be...im constantly having to make 100 point turns everywhere lol

Now i dont think i need some huge expensive hydloic rams system some people have, but what would fix the problem? pump? steering box? (rag joint is fine) Or is thins a good time to invest in crossover steering? My only question with that is does crossover steering have more leverage then regular 4x4 box?? looks like it might.



thanks guys(pls excuse any spelling or gramatical errors)
 
Does it only do it when its hot? Need a cooler?......Sounds like its the pump. Does the pump whine? Does your sector shaft have play in it?
 
Crossover would help the turn-the-steering-wheel-but-the-wheels-don't-turn thing ... as you say, provides more leverage.

The boiling over is bad, but could be due to the excessive use of push-pull and such.

The other stuff sounds like wear; I'd check your draglink and tie-rod ends and ball joints. While the box could be worn as well, the DLE/TRE's and ball joints would be the first places to look.

-- A
 
If you are turning to lock and the wheels are not moving you have something majorly wrong and I would not be driving it on the street untill you get it fixed. Your pitman arm might be loose or the splines worn out letting it slip on the steering shaft. Or the worm gear inside the box could be worn out.
 
I agree with the others..... it could be anything from the pump to the tie rod ends and everything in between... I would park it until you can fix it because thats a safety hazard.

I suspect the steering box or something directly attached (pitman arm, sector shaft) or highly worn DragLink ends and/or Tie Rod Ends
 
Thats whats kinda wierd....no whining, does it all the time, tierods/end links tight, pitman arm is fine.

I am very mechanical, but i alwasy though there was a direct link from the steering wheel to the tires....and it was just "hydrolically assisted" but it almost seems as if the is no link and there is just a hydrolic conection and i dont have enough pressure..



Someone have a good description of how it really works?

Im not driving it anymore untill its fixed, but the steering works fine on the street, although it just feels lose. the only time it wont move the tires is playin in the rocks. like if a wheel is stuck against a rock full lock to the right, and i turn the steering wheel all the way to the left with only a small amount MORE resistance then if the tire was not stuck. If i let go.. the steering wheel will correct all the way back to the right quickly, but not crazy fast.
 
Going off of your description it sounds like your frame is cracked around your steering box and allowing the box to move around while your in the rocks and theres resistance against the wheels but still there is enough uncracked frame left so that it will turn the wheels while your going down the street. That would also explain your loose steering on the street.

Yes there is a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and your tires.
 
As you already mentioned, there is a mechanical link between the steering wheel and the tires........so even if the pump is bad there is absolutely no way it could be the problem in terms that you can move the steering wheel but the tires don't move.

You obviously have something seriously loose. I would park with the tires up against a curb or something (to provide resistance) and turn the wheel back and forth while somebody watchs all of the components.

Start with checking the steering shaft (between steering column and box) as I've seen the couplers (rag joint) on these allow a lot of movement. Then make sure the pitman arm is not slipping on the steering box shaft. I've also seen a similiar problem on my truck with a bad driver's side front spring......enough force would cause the spring to bend instead of actually turning the tire, but with little or no force on the tires the spring was okay and could overcome the force the tires saw when turning.
 
Robert79K5 said:
Going off of your description it sounds like your frame is cracked around your steering box and allowing the box to move around while your in the rocks and theres resistance against the wheels but still there is enough uncracked frame left so that it will turn the wheels while your going down the street. That would also explain your loose steering on the street.

Yes there is a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and your tires.
Click to expand...

Ahh sh*t, you're right..... :doah:
 
Robert79K5 said:
Going off of your description it sounds like your frame is cracked around your steering box and allowing the box to move around while your in the rocks and theres resistance against the wheels but still there is enough uncracked frame left so that it will turn the wheels while your going down the street. That would also explain your loose steering on the street.

Yes there is a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and your tires.
Click to expand...

Doh doh doh x4. Get thee to your frame, a welder, and the weld-on AND bolt-in steering braces.

-- A
 
I get the same thing going on sometimes . Its not my frame , I am welded and bolt on braced . Not my steering system , it drives back and forth everyday and works , all components good , and I don't puke oil .

In my case I need crossover steering .

I learned to deal with it by rolling back or forward a tad , and blipping the throttle in neautral to get some pressure up .

Last time I was on this one trail with FWP it worked , and I got it to turn left where Marv was cussing my steering out months before :thumb:

I still need crossover steering though , so its a non-issue .
 
pauly383 said:
I get the same thing going on sometimes . Its not my frame , I am welded and bolt on braced . Not my steering system , it drives back and forth everyday and works , all components good , and I don't puke oil .

In my case I need crossover steering .

I learned to deal with it by rolling back or forward a tad , and blipping the throttle in neautral to get some pressure up .

Last time I was on this one trail with FWP it worked , and I got it to turn left where Marv was cussing my steering out months before :thumb:

I still need crossover steering though , so its a non-issue .
Click to expand...
You have a different problem. Your steering wheel won't turn(like mine). His turns from lock to lock. You are dealing with a pressure problem ( a smaller version of what I'm going through), he is dealing with mechanical failure( frame cracked or the bolts torn from the box or some REALLY worn out ball joints and TREs).

And I run crossover.
 
You know, If i was reading this post that probally what i would sugest too, that the frame was cracked....but i really dont think its is. I've got under there and looked several times around that area and looks fine. HOWEVER, the previous owner/destoyer/crook covered everything with sooo much under coating spray i can see how it would be possible to miss a crack.

Guess i gotta bust out the sand blaster and check it out when i get home from work. thanks guys...


P.S. those of you with cross over steering, who did your machining on the spindle and how much did it cost?
 
camarossguy2 said:
P.S. those of you with cross over steering, who did your machining on the spindle and how much did it cost?
Click to expand...

I bought a refurb. knuckle and steering arm from WFO Concepts

I believe Tevor over at WFO can do yours (if you send them in to him) too, or the guys at ORD can do them too.
 
camarossguy2 said:
You know, If i was reading this post that probally what i would sugest too, that the frame was cracked....but i really dont think its is. I've got under there and looked several times around that area and looks fine. HOWEVER, the previous owner/destoyer/crook covered everything with sooo much under coating spray i can see how it would be possible to miss a crack.

Guess i gotta bust out the sand blaster and check it out when i get home from work. thanks guys...


P.S. those of you with cross over steering, who did your machining on the spindle and how much did it cost?
Click to expand...

i never though mine was cracked until i went to crossover and noticed all of the holes are wallowed out aroudn the bolts. yours sounds alot like mine.
i deceided a weld on brace, bolt on brace and crossover.
 
Ok, so im home now from work and the blazer is parked up against a curb. Turned the wheel and the box is totally stationary. So im sure its not cracked.

What moves is the axle lol

seems when the wheels cant pivot due to a obstruction of stress, the driver side axle moves BOTH back and forth and up and down. almost like the steering linkage is lifting the trck up. I can see the leafs flex and contract. Also in reference to the forward back movement, im not sure where its coming from...maybe its the same as the updown.

so uhhhh WTF? lol


There only two things i can think of. 1 is that original the owner said it had a 6'' lift, turned out it had 4'' springs and some home made shackles. I junked those leafs and went with tuff country 6'' springs in the front...for a total of 8'' of lift.....yet I have done nothing to the steering. It apears that the U shaped steering knuckle is aftermarket, but im guessing it would be for a 4'' lift.
Does anyone know the proper angle for the linkage between the pitman arm and the U shaped dealy-mo-bob?? I will take a pic, but i think mines like 45* lol. Might be a culprate for the up-down action

:EDIT: SEE PICTURES BELOW

2. I nailed a erroded creek wall about 2'' high (90* angle) in 2wd and although it made it up lol, it amlost made me smack into the horn with me face. After action inspection looked like the axle may have been pushed back slightly. Hmmm I though there were pins keeping this from happening, but i also have shims that might effect the depth those pins set into the axle recepticles... This might explain the slight forward back motion.....

Anyone, kind just ramblin, but let me know if ya'll have any thoughts/info




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cross-over steering, heavy duty tie-rod and draglink with hydro assist and you wont be complaining bout turning anymore :) mine was so hard to turn before, i think i was actually bending the tie-rod and draglink. switched to cross over and hydro assist, no problems since
 
I'm no suspension engineer, but the draglink should be parallel to the ground. Running the draglink at an angle effectly shortens its length. Droop one side to angle it more and it gets shorter. The raised steering arm you have is really only effective for 4-6" of lift. They also have dropped pitman arms and dropped draglinks to level it out. From what I've read on here, you really can't use all 3 (raised arm, dropped pitman and dropped drag link) at the same time.

Some have better results (than just a raised arm) by using the dropped pitman and draglink. Crossover would be the best cure for it.
 
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