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who else here drives without wearing a seat belt?

454Sub said:
Once again insurance is brought up. Why is raising insurance premiums a big deal for non seat belted drivers yet nobody bats an eye at the cost of paying for cancer or serosis treatment? I would love this to be explained to me. The cost of medical treatment from smoking or drinking is easily triple the cost of the unbelted motorist. So why does it seem logical to create a law mandating seatbelts yet allowing drinking and smoking like it's going out of style? And I am a smoker, occasional drinker and wear my seatbelt. My son was actually thrown from his mother's vehicle in her roll over accident. But in the end how is one that is actually less expensive to pay for illegal yet obvious ones that the cost is easily triple and the damage done is tremendously more perfectly ok as a choice? I mean factor in domestic problems from alcohol on top of it, heart disease, hell the list goes on and on. If anything that seems hypocritical. Seems like it's ok as long as it can be sold for money and profitable. If they offered a fun windshield ride I would imagine half of the people wouldn't have a problem with it. Anyone with a dying relative due to smoking or drinking would probably see this. The end result is the exact same. A hospital bed then a stainless morgue table.

And I am not advocating not using a seatbelt. I am simply curious as to the hypocrisy of one personal choice vs another when the end result is the same exact grave.
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In Canada, our health care system is funded by taxpayers. I help pay for the treatment of diseases of tobacco users(me), people who drink alcohol(me), drug addicts(not me), overweight people(not me), diabetics(not me), people who choose to drive aggressively(not me 99% of the time), people who engage in unprotected sex leading to STDs(not me), people who partake in high risk sports(not me), people with psychological issues(not me 99.9% of the time), and on and on and on. Alcohol and tobacco users up here essentially pay for their treatment in advance due to skyhigh taxes on both.

I totally get your point about personal choice, but a gawdamn seatbelt is soooooo easy to use it shouldn't be up for debate. I'm all for less government in my life but this particular issue is quite simply a no-brainer. A seatbelt doesn't really cost me anything, isn't an inconvenience, and isn't hard to use. It's like the PPE of driving- your last line of defense. And looking at the overall quality of drivers in my area, I'll increase my odds of survival wherever I can find it.

As far as "allowing" smoking and drinking, there's one reason it has not been outlawed. Let's face it- both these activities bring a metric shitload of taxes to government coffers. On the flip side, seatbelt use does not generate an iota of income for the government, but those injured or killed where seatbelts are not used has the potential to cost the government extra funds, especially in Canada.
 
OK.....lets change the pace a little bit:

I used to be a seat belt rebel. Never wanted to wear one, and for a long time I refused to be told that I had to. So I didn't.

I felt it should be up to the person if they should wear one or not. Not the police or the government, or your neighbor. It should be left up to you. Until:

In 1994, yes.......1994. I was driving a Buick Regal to a friends house. We were going to play Nintendo and I was kind of in a hurry. The speedometer didn't work very well. The needle would bounce a wide span of MPH and I took the center of the bounce as the speed. If the needle bounced between 15 mph and 45 mph then I was guessing the speed would be about 30 mph or so. So I thought.

I was cruising about 35 mph, on Carnahan Ave, with no seat belt on, and passed an off ramp where an unmarked patrol car was sitting. As soon as I went by, the patrol car lights came on. You know the ones. The bright, flashing red and blue lights. The lights that makes your stomach churn hoping they weren't meant for you. They were meant for me. After giving the officer my ID and insurance, he proceeded to tell me that I was on his radar going 41 in a 30. And I didn't have a seat belt on. I got cited for both. After receiving my future donations to the policeman's ball, and putting on my seat belt, I told him to have a nice day and continued on to my destination of gaming.

I drove about 500 feet to the t-section of the road and turned right, onto SE 21st St . As soon as I was out of view from the officer I took my seat belt off. I decided to take off 5 mph from the bouncing needle to give me some insurance that I wasn't going to get caught speeding again. Wrong!!!

About 1/4 mile up the road I passed another unmarked patrol car. I was going West and they were going East. When I saw them turn around I hurried up and put my seat belt back on and just kept cruising hoping they weren't coming for me. I mean, come on. I wasn't speeding. Did they see me without my seat belt on? Well, those bright, flashing red and blue lights came on. Stomach starts churning again. They were for me. What a surprise. So I crossed California Ave to a vacant parking lot. It used to be a State Farm Insurance building but they had moved and the place was empty. I figured, what a nice place to get another ticket.

So when the nice, lady officer came to my window, I already had my license and insurance ready for her. I was kind of chuckling as she took my information. She asked, " What seems to be so funny, Mr. Perry?". I reached over and picked up my first citation and handed it to her. She somehow found that amusing too. She said, " It just doesn't seem to be your day, huh?" With a smile I said, ''No, not really." She said, " Well, at least you had your seat belt on this time. I got you doing 40 in a 30." I shook my head as she got a good laugh at that. And then I started to laugh a bit with her. She was very nice and she told me that if I went to the courthouse within 14 days, that they would drop the least expensive citation. Which would be the one she gave me. I said thank you for the advice and, after putting on my seat belt, I told her to have a nice day, and continued on to my destination of gaming.

The two citations were 9 minutes apart. Is that a record? I've had 3 speeding tickets, in the same week, by the same sheriff. But these were 9 minutes apart. I'm not proud of that. I just wonder if that should be in the Guinness book of World records? No? Oh, well.

I did make it to my friends house without another LEO stop. And I actually left my seat belt on. I put it on every time I get into a vehicle, whether I'm the driver or a passenger.

To finish the story, I forgot about the 2 citations I got. I mean, I totally forgot to go to the courthouse and take care of them.

I was working night shift at the dog food plant, in Lawrence, Ks. It was about 1:00 am when the boss called me into his office to tell me my wife was on the phone. We didn't have cell phones back then. She tells me that the Sheriff is at our home with a Bench Warrant for my arrest. For those 2 tickets I forgot about. Oh, I forgot to tell her too. She had no clue. We lived in a small town where every one knows everything and the Sheriff just told me to take care of it soon.

Well, three days later I was $268 poorer. That's what the total cost was for both tickets plus court costs. And a very long ass chewing from the wifey. I didn't get any for almost a month. That's the real reason I started wearing my seat belt. :whistle:

But seriously, wear your seat belt. It will help keep you from slamming into the air bag that's going to rearrange your face when you nose dive into it. And I hate air bags. That's another story.:waytogo:
 
I wear mine in the blazer ,and the excursion and the wife's rogue,but for some reason I do not wear it in my old 1986 Toyota pickup
 
How else do you push in the clutch on a z-bar SM465? Without a belt, you'd come off the seat.

Honestly, I always wear while driving, but rarely while wheeling.
 
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ChrisPerry said:
Yeah, I know a guy in high school that put 3 rounds in a revolver, then put the barrel to his temple and pulled the trigger. He is still alive, so I guess everyone should do it.

I always thought he was a lucky fool.
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So,,,that's not exactly where I was going with that. I argue with my father all the time about wearing his seatbelt; he's a fool for never wearing it. He walked away because he hit a PT Loser, had it been another truck, I may have lost him.
 
There is a risk / reward with everything...the benefits of wearing a seat belt far outweigh the risks. With just an old lap belt there used to be cases if liver lacerations that were fatal, but with modern belts that's not the case. And being thrown from a vehicle and surviving would be like hitting the lottery.
 
Wow, you've brought up a very touchy subject for me. I do wear my seatbelt most of the time, but it is with some trepidation. You see, my father was killed by his seatbelt.
In a snowstorm he was pushed off the freeway by a semi changing lanes without looking. He lost control of his Blazer and nose dived into a canal at an estimated 35-40 mph. The shoulder belt fractured his first rib on the left side which tore into his aorta and killed him instantly. At the funeral I told myself I was never going to wear a seatbelt again. I was 19 years old. Then 4 days later my younger brother became very ill. He had cold turkey quit taking his steroid meds he needed for a kidney condition. After dialysis to save him I asked why he quit the drugs. He said that "dad took a handful of medicines every morning and he is still dead. So I figured I didn't need them." I figured he was young and stupid and didn't understand. But then I realize that me saying I wasn't going to wear a seatbelt was not much different than my brother quitting his medicines for no good reason. You don't just quit doing something that can keep you safe just because one other person was harmed by it. And you don't quit wearing your seatbelt because someone else was lucky and survived a crash without wearing one.
I realize that statistically more people are saved by their seatbelts than those that are killed by their seatbelts. But I can tell you, every time I put my seatbelt on I think of my father who was killed by his belt. I wear my seatbelt now because I understand that if dad wasn't killed by his seatbelt he probably would've been killed hitting the steering wheel that was pushed up a foot from the floorboard. There are risks in anything you do. Hell, my grandmother fell and broke her hip just getting out of bed. Does that mean the rest of us should all stay in bed. But when you weigh the risks versus benefits there is no question that wearing a seatbelt is more likely to save your life then not wearing one.
The one thing that disturbs me though is that I can be pulled over here in Idaho and cited for not wearing a seatbelt while the dude on the motorcycle rides past legally with no helmet. That is just unbelievable to me! I have a better chance of surviving a car wreck with the truck cab around me than the guy bouncing down the road with no helmet. Again, there is no question that wearing a helmet is much safer than not wearing a helmet. That is also proven by statistics. By saying this I am not arguing that we not wear seatbelts. I just think it's stupid to focus laws unilaterally. If I am required to wear a seatbelt he should be required to wear a helmet. Period. End of story. I work in an operating room and a great majority of unhelmeted motorcycle accidents end up with very serious injuries, most of them to the head. In fact we have come to call unhelmeted riders "donorcyclists." Far too many of them end up with head injuries that leave them brain-dead and donating organs.
454Sub went on and on about smoking and drinking causing health issues and he seemed to take issue with the government not regulating alcohol and tobacco more than they already do. And I agree with him to a point. If you start making all these laws to protect people from themselves you shouldn't just target certain portions of the population. But if our lives become to regulated we will be miserable as well. I don't smoke or drink but I don't think we should go back to the days of prohibition. I think we all know that smoking is bad for our health. So is overheating. Are we going to regulate how much and what type of food people are allowed to buy? Do we start regulating marijuana again? And what about guns? (Oops, did I really go there) If we have to have a law against everything that could harm us then we would hate our lives. There is a type of society out there that controls every aspect of peoples lives .... it's called communism. And the type of control we are seeing from the government now days is similar to socialism, which is simply a steppingstone to communism. I do not believe that the role of a constitutional government should be to regulate our lives in anyway, or to take away our agency and right to choose for ourselves. Force is not the way to get more people to wear seatbelts. Encouragement is the way. So thank you all for encouraging me to be smart and wear my seatbelt.
 
All of this is complete facts. I personally use a seat belt all of the time. Kids obviously do as well. But the whole point is, and has been proven, it's still just a choice that effects you and everyone around you just the same as other choices. That's the problem. Personal choices like that should be covered under your personal common sense, not a government official telling you to do it simply because "it's good for you". Even if it is. Which in this case it is. But that's how a population becomes subservient. And stupid.


And I hate to be the paranoid tin foil hat guy but it's undeniable to say that every single dictatorship in human history, Kings, Senate's, God's, Chancellor 's, Pharaoh's, Kaiser's, Comrades and what have yous, the beginning of all of them was "it's good for "insert word here". Usually you, us, country, ect.
 
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I work at a spinal injury hospital. Walk the halls and seatbelts start to sound pretty good. I'm also not climbing up in a deer stand or diving off a dock either.
 
First off when doing wild maneuvers it keeps me behind the wheel or at least somewhat in the seat which gives me the best chance at regaining control. Want to know what the real difference a seatbelt makes is. Go find the toughest guy you know and he can punch you in the stomach as hard as he can provided his fist is against your body already when he throws the punch. Then have him do it with his fist 12 inches away from your body when he punches. This is the difference the seatbelt makes. Yes you hit the seatbelt against your body but there isn't enough distance for your body to gain momentum before the sudden stop vs. the car stopping and your body propelling forward until you hit the steering wheel, dash, or windshield.

Yes there are rare circumstances where if people had been held upright in their seatbelt they would have been killed, but the odds are similar to winning the powerball.

To open a new can of worms. Not wearing a seatbelt is similar to not wearing a helmet. Guess you didn't have anything to protect anyway.
 
When I got pulled over in the k5 years ago the seat belt had been removed from the vehicle. it did not retrack and was held together with twist ties. when the cop walked up i put a coat over my lap. cop did not even notice.
 
I'm an actual T12 spinal cord injury person being caused by not wearing my seat belt in an impromptu early morning drive 17 years ago. Ya you guys are all paying my way here and I've never had it so good! I'm in a lot of pain and have to go swimming often but I'm a University-educated Limey from the slums of London that decided to forgo the pleasures of Employment for a subsistence based lifestyle and commercial fishing in Alaska.
Wow! Thank you everybody!
By the way I still drive my 5th diesel burb since 1995-pity I was in a Ford compact truck when it happened!
 
wazzabie said:
When I got pulled over in the k5 years ago the seat belt had been removed from the vehicle. it did not retrack and was held together with twist ties. when the cop walked up i put a coat over my lap. cop did not even notice.
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I got pulled over in my 73 tail light out. I was on my way home with the bulb. But he said I'm gonna have to write you a ticket for not wearing your seatbelt.

I paused and said slowly.....Look I know I'm fat, then I pulled the seatbelt out. He got so red was super embarrassed. Only a lap belt in a 73 thought had never crossed his mind.
 
blazinzuk said:
I got pulled over in my 73 tail light out. I was on my way home with the bulb. But he said I'm gonna have to write you a ticket for not wearing your seatbelt.

I paused and said slowly.....Look I know I'm fat, then I pulled the seatbelt out. He got so red was super embarrassed. Only a lap belt in a 73 thought had never crossed his mind.
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LOL! I'd have loved to see the look on his face!
 
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