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Who is towing how much with what gas motors?
- Thread starter mikey_d05
- Start date
botboy
1/2 ton status
mikey_d05 said:
This, this is why automatics, including computer-controlled automatics, suck. I'll take a manual over an auto any day.
What kind of money are you willing to spend? That is key. Any engine combo that has been mentioned should work just fine for 8K. Heck, my dad's 1/2t burb with a Vortec 350 handles 6.5K respectively.
I'll chime in on the Dodges for you. Avoid any small block Dodge pickup. The 318 is one of the best engines ever made but it's an engine for gas mileage and grocery getting, not towing. The 360 is POS, sucks gas and it's power just sucks. The Hemi is basically a joke in anything larger than a 1/2t, they should have kept it in their throwback "sport" trucks that never pull anything.
The later model Dodges with the V10 are GOOD pullers. They are huge, nearly 500 ci IIRC and make some good power. Before the 24v Cummins, the stock V10 power numbers were impressive even compared to the Cummins, but thats on paper. You will find the 47RH or 47RE auto trans behind the V10 in the mid 90's to very early 2000's. I've heard the autos failing behind the V10 is less common than one behind the Cummins. I wouldn't be scared of an auto V10 at all, I have a 47RE equipped 24v Cummins truck and have had good luck. I will venture to say the 47RE tranny is as stout as the 4L80E. The difference is the 47RE is in a tougher application. You can also get the NV4500 manual behind the V10 also, there are a few guys with either the auto or manual over at towrig.com and they love them.
Also, the later 94-02 Dodges are nice trucks inside and out, on the later versions. Nice trucks that are solid for a fair price vs. an HD chevy or GMC. The best flip out towing mirrors in the biz too. The V10 has a cool, unique sound like nothing else too.
Don't know much about the Fords.
Our '98 C30 Dually with a vortec 454/NV4500 is a decent puller. It actually pulls some decent mileage, like 14 on the highway and 10 in town. I don't think it pulls like my neighbor's V10 Dodge though, but in all fairness it's a larger engine than the 454.
If you can go diesel. It's the way to go when you are going to drive a lot and tow a lot.
I'll chime in on the Dodges for you. Avoid any small block Dodge pickup. The 318 is one of the best engines ever made but it's an engine for gas mileage and grocery getting, not towing. The 360 is POS, sucks gas and it's power just sucks. The Hemi is basically a joke in anything larger than a 1/2t, they should have kept it in their throwback "sport" trucks that never pull anything.
The later model Dodges with the V10 are GOOD pullers. They are huge, nearly 500 ci IIRC and make some good power. Before the 24v Cummins, the stock V10 power numbers were impressive even compared to the Cummins, but thats on paper. You will find the 47RH or 47RE auto trans behind the V10 in the mid 90's to very early 2000's. I've heard the autos failing behind the V10 is less common than one behind the Cummins. I wouldn't be scared of an auto V10 at all, I have a 47RE equipped 24v Cummins truck and have had good luck. I will venture to say the 47RE tranny is as stout as the 4L80E. The difference is the 47RE is in a tougher application. You can also get the NV4500 manual behind the V10 also, there are a few guys with either the auto or manual over at towrig.com and they love them.
Also, the later 94-02 Dodges are nice trucks inside and out, on the later versions. Nice trucks that are solid for a fair price vs. an HD chevy or GMC. The best flip out towing mirrors in the biz too. The V10 has a cool, unique sound like nothing else too.
Don't know much about the Fords.
Our '98 C30 Dually with a vortec 454/NV4500 is a decent puller. It actually pulls some decent mileage, like 14 on the highway and 10 in town. I don't think it pulls like my neighbor's V10 Dodge though, but in all fairness it's a larger engine than the 454.
If you can go diesel. It's the way to go when you are going to drive a lot and tow a lot.
botboy: I'd love to go with a manual but good luck finding one in a late model HD these days.
RJF: I have my limits on price, I'm just trying to feel out a balance between vehicle condition (mileage, general shape, etc.) and pulling power. Don't get me wrong, I would love to go diesel, but late model diesels are holding their value so well that it appears to be anywhere from $2k-$5k cheaper to go with an equivalent model gas truck. Also, with diesel being .70 cents or so more expensive than gas every winter here (plus the additive to keep it from gelling) the fuel mileage kinda cancels itself out.
I totally forgot about the Dodge V10's, I'll have to look into that as well.
I'm trying to decide whether to go with a new DD or a tube buggy in the next couple of years so we'll see what happens. I use my dad's diesel as a tow rig now and he'd probably sell it to me for cheap when he's done with it....but, it's a 6.0 PSD and the bills could get real scary real fast when the warranty expres.
On another note, the GM 88-98 3/4 and 1 tons are going for pretty cheap now since the body style change. I'll have to see what summer brings for a job.
RJF: I have my limits on price, I'm just trying to feel out a balance between vehicle condition (mileage, general shape, etc.) and pulling power. Don't get me wrong, I would love to go diesel, but late model diesels are holding their value so well that it appears to be anywhere from $2k-$5k cheaper to go with an equivalent model gas truck. Also, with diesel being .70 cents or so more expensive than gas every winter here (plus the additive to keep it from gelling) the fuel mileage kinda cancels itself out.
I totally forgot about the Dodge V10's, I'll have to look into that as well.
I'm trying to decide whether to go with a new DD or a tube buggy in the next couple of years so we'll see what happens. I use my dad's diesel as a tow rig now and he'd probably sell it to me for cheap when he's done with it....but, it's a 6.0 PSD and the bills could get real scary real fast when the warranty expres.
On another note, the GM 88-98 3/4 and 1 tons are going for pretty cheap now since the body style change. I'll have to see what summer brings for a job.
afroman006
1/2 ton status
As far as diesel being more expensive, when a diesel truck gets twice the mileage while towing the same load as a gas truck would, that extra $0.70 doesnt really matter. You are right about the initial cost being higher, and gas chevies being cheap right now. I got my crewcab when gas prices were just starting to skyrocket back in march for $7k out the door. Its blue book at the time was $9500 so I think I got a good deal.
Seventy4Blazer
3/4 ton status
i used to tow my blazer on the 16 foot trailer with my old 98 K3500 454 Vortec and 4L8e. thing had 4.10 gears, lower of the two. optional gears were 4.56 and it was a dog. i was towing about 9k around. great on the flats, but hills KILLEDit. the motor was rebuilt 10k before i bought it with a lunati cam, lifters intake, headers true dual exhaust and cold air intake. still a dog.
diesel is the way. if you are worried about finding fuel get an extra 50ish gallon tank.
oh, im drunk
Grant
diesel is the way. if you are worried about finding fuel get an extra 50ish gallon tank.
oh, im drunk
Grant
I have an '03 Chevy 2500HD CC/SB with the 6.0L and 4L80E with 4.10 gears. It's my daily driver so I needed something new(er) and reliable and am very pleased with it.
Empty it gets around 15-16 mpg (my dad's '02 with the same drivetrain gets the same). I have 40k+ miles and my dad has over 80k miles with no issues.
Towing my 6,000 lb. 1-ton K5 on a 2,500 trailer it gets around 9 mpg. For those of you who think a diesel will "get twice the mileage towing" I'll call B.S. right now, and I doubt it will get more than a couple more mpg's empty (if that).
Living in the Midwest I don't have any true mountains to contend with but I have been in several very hilly places. With the Blazer on the trailer, full trail tools, spares, and a long weekend worth of camping supplies and firewood it will pull OD on small hills at 70-75 mph with no problems, and drop down in 3rd for any bigger grade but maintain speed. On a few really long and steep grades you can usually either keep in it 3rd and will lug and start losing speed, or let it shift into 2nd and go. On one trip we pulled a grade that I was in 3rd gear at about 50 mph. There was a V-10 Dodge dually with us that was pulling a relatively light Toyota pickup and a Jeep that was down to 1st gear (auto trans) and 20 mph.......the Dodge did have more total trailer weight but it wasn't that impressive considering the advantage in engine displacement and torque ratings it had.
As mentioned, there is no problem with letting the engine "rev" for extended periods of time. For the most part the days of gas engines lugging heavy loads at 1,800 rpm are over. In regards to the transmission shifting down too much........it's just doing it's job!
With all that said I definitely won't say the 6.0L is the ultimate towing engine. A Duramax would have been nice, but I just couldn't justify the extra $5,000 price tag for that option when I simply use the truck for recreational towing about once per month and the empty driving benefits are also pretty marginal with a diesel.
Empty it gets around 15-16 mpg (my dad's '02 with the same drivetrain gets the same). I have 40k+ miles and my dad has over 80k miles with no issues.
Towing my 6,000 lb. 1-ton K5 on a 2,500 trailer it gets around 9 mpg. For those of you who think a diesel will "get twice the mileage towing" I'll call B.S. right now, and I doubt it will get more than a couple more mpg's empty (if that).
Living in the Midwest I don't have any true mountains to contend with but I have been in several very hilly places. With the Blazer on the trailer, full trail tools, spares, and a long weekend worth of camping supplies and firewood it will pull OD on small hills at 70-75 mph with no problems, and drop down in 3rd for any bigger grade but maintain speed. On a few really long and steep grades you can usually either keep in it 3rd and will lug and start losing speed, or let it shift into 2nd and go. On one trip we pulled a grade that I was in 3rd gear at about 50 mph. There was a V-10 Dodge dually with us that was pulling a relatively light Toyota pickup and a Jeep that was down to 1st gear (auto trans) and 20 mph.......the Dodge did have more total trailer weight but it wasn't that impressive considering the advantage in engine displacement and torque ratings it had.
As mentioned, there is no problem with letting the engine "rev" for extended periods of time. For the most part the days of gas engines lugging heavy loads at 1,800 rpm are over. In regards to the transmission shifting down too much........it's just doing it's job!
With all that said I definitely won't say the 6.0L is the ultimate towing engine. A Duramax would have been nice, but I just couldn't justify the extra $5,000 price tag for that option when I simply use the truck for recreational towing about once per month and the empty driving benefits are also pretty marginal with a diesel.
afroman006
1/2 ton status
Every cummins I've ever heard of gets at least 12 mpg no matter how big the load is. My girlfriend gets 14 mpg towing her 13k horse trailer so yes diesels do get extrordinarily better towing mileage than gassers.
After an long, drawn out talk with dear old dad this weekend, it turns out he's keeping our Ford for at least another 3-5 years. I'll be out of college by then and able to afford/take out a loan for a rig that I want. In the meantime...he's trying to convince me to strip my K5 and put the money toward building a buggy...for those of you that saw my threads in the lounge about our relationship going south, I'm saying WTF too... 
Anyways, about gas mileage, our diesel does 17-18 unloaded average, and that includes letting it warm up forever in winter. It did 13 I believe the last time I towed with it. That was with my rig and plenty of tools, spares, gear, and fuel.
Anyways, about gas mileage, our diesel does 17-18 unloaded average, and that includes letting it warm up forever in winter. It did 13 I believe the last time I towed with it. That was with my rig and plenty of tools, spares, gear, and fuel.
I towed my abomination on my 20' car hauler with my 305-powered pickup with 3.42 gears (The one that is in this month's picture in the Rigs calendar 
). I could hold overdrive at 70mph. My 305 puts out more power than a crate 350 though. On hills I'd periodically have to run 'er in second gear but no one was passing me so I wasn't going that slow (most hills in the UP have passing lanes). Ended up getting around 11mpg towing which is better than what I get in city driving.
I just bought a 99 1/2 ton extended cab shortbox Z71 with a 5.3L and 4 wheel disc. According to the spec sheet it makes just a tad less power than my 305. I expect it to tow better than my 305-powered pickup. It has 3.73s, smaller tires (265s vs 33s), tons better aerodynamics, a lot lower to the ground, and modern fuel injection. I figure it'll do fine for what I want, get decent mileage when not towing, and hopefully be pretty reliable. It isn't ideal for towing but considering I paid less than a quarter what a used Duramax is going for right now... I think I'll keep the gasser. it even looks like the other bazillion grandpa grocery getters on the road
). I could hold overdrive at 70mph. My 305 puts out more power than a crate 350 though. On hills I'd periodically have to run 'er in second gear but no one was passing me so I wasn't going that slow (most hills in the UP have passing lanes). Ended up getting around 11mpg towing which is better than what I get in city driving.I just bought a 99 1/2 ton extended cab shortbox Z71 with a 5.3L and 4 wheel disc. According to the spec sheet it makes just a tad less power than my 305. I expect it to tow better than my 305-powered pickup. It has 3.73s, smaller tires (265s vs 33s), tons better aerodynamics, a lot lower to the ground, and modern fuel injection. I figure it'll do fine for what I want, get decent mileage when not towing, and hopefully be pretty reliable. It isn't ideal for towing but considering I paid less than a quarter what a used Duramax is going for right now... I think I'll keep the gasser. it even looks like the other bazillion grandpa grocery getters on the road
I have a 91 C2500 2wd with a 454 under the hood. It's also equiped with a 4L80E trans and a 14bff rear with 4.10's. I get about 8-10 mpg..averaging 65-70 mph. I'm pulling almost 8,000 lbs...the trailer is on the high side...with a k5 with a 6" lift on 44's...so the entire load sits up a bit. The cap on the bed seems to help with the wind resistance from the load.
The rig does pretty well in the flatlands of Ohio...I'm in overdrive most of the time. I do find myself dropping the trans into Drive when hitting eastern ohio's hills. For the $4000 I paid for the rig in 97'...it's been a good rig.
The rig does pretty well in the flatlands of Ohio...I'm in overdrive most of the time. I do find myself dropping the trans into Drive when hitting eastern ohio's hills. For the $4000 I paid for the rig in 97'...it's been a good rig.
MT wheeler
1/2 ton status
I agree with your dilema and choices on what is out. I too went through the same thing for about a year. I bought a 2002 Chevy 2500HD X-cab shortbed with the 8.1/Allison/3.73 with a locker and I LOVE it. 
Yeah it only gets 13 on the highway and 10 in town but I am like you, gas milage was not a concern. I tow my rig with the cruise set at 75 an don't even know it is back there. I could not ask for anything more out of a truck. In case it is not obvious I love my truck. It rides better than ford or dodge also. Oh yeah, its gets wheel'd also.
Yeah it only gets 13 on the highway and 10 in town but I am like you, gas milage was not a concern. I tow my rig with the cruise set at 75 an don't even know it is back there. I could not ask for anything more out of a truck. In case it is not obvious I love my truck. It rides better than ford or dodge also. Oh yeah, its gets wheel'd also.
hd-10
1/2 ton status
mikey_d05 said:
ya it will keep up i got the 05 2500hd cc 6.0 and pulling anyware between 8,000-9,000lbs behind it and not a problem this truck is stronger then most people think. and i am getting around 11mpg towing or so.
wicked6
Registered Member
FWIW, towing with our 2002 Z71 Tahoe has been a pleasant experience.. Even at 70 mph, high altitude, up and down hills (slows to 50-60 mph), the little SBC pulls like a champ & still gets 14 mpg.. My 2000 Ford PSD was hard pressed to do better than that at the pump with the same load.. I am still puzzled, but the MPG numbers were / are a fact.. I wouldn't wanna compare power, however.. diesels win, hands down..
I was fortunate enough to compare both vehicles on the same roads - 2 different interstate routes - I 25 south to El Paso, and I 40 west to Las Vegas, NV (from Albq, NM). I had the family, all our junk, A/C on, DVDs playing for the kiddo, wife sleeping, etc - basically in MUCH better comfort than the CC F250.. I have since sold the Ford..
I wouldn't try towing much more than 9000 with the Tahoe, though..
Good luck!!!!
I was fortunate enough to compare both vehicles on the same roads - 2 different interstate routes - I 25 south to El Paso, and I 40 west to Las Vegas, NV (from Albq, NM). I had the family, all our junk, A/C on, DVDs playing for the kiddo, wife sleeping, etc - basically in MUCH better comfort than the CC F250.. I have since sold the Ford..
I wouldn't try towing much more than 9000 with the Tahoe, though..
Good luck!!!!
I had a 92 Dodge Cummins (5 spd/3.73 gears) that I traded for a 91 V3500 crewcab dually (454/4L80E/4:10 gears) (both had NP205's). I pulled a 30-ft 5th wheel with both. The Dodge got 19 mpg empty and 9 mpg loaded. The Chev got 12 mpg empty and 7 mpg loaded. Otherwise they were almost identical in pulling power.
ZZ4x4
1/2 ton status
Keep in mind that the 5.3 and 6.0 have evolved quite a bit over their short lifespans. I have a model year 2000 5.3 and it cannot tow 8K. I towed a K30 across country and the poor 5.3 had to be run near redline for minutes at a time going up shallow grades to keep the speed up. I was sure it was gonna blow 
. But the 2000 engine is rated at 235 hp. The newer model years 5.3 is rated at 295hp and the 5.3 "H.O." option has 310hp. There are two versions of the 6.0 gasser as well with the H.O. version putting out 345hp. Prolly should find someone who has a new truck to ask how it tows if you're planning to buy new so you can really compare apples to apples.... but that adds even more diffuculty to the decision I'm sure....
I'd say go diesel if you can afford it though. I had a Dmax which did great and am now on my 3rd PSD. No comparison to most SB gassers.
. But the 2000 engine is rated at 235 hp. The newer model years 5.3 is rated at 295hp and the 5.3 "H.O." option has 310hp. There are two versions of the 6.0 gasser as well with the H.O. version putting out 345hp. Prolly should find someone who has a new truck to ask how it tows if you're planning to buy new so you can really compare apples to apples.... but that adds even more diffuculty to the decision I'm sure.... I'd say go diesel if you can afford it though.
I had a Dmax which did great and am now on my 3rd PSD. No comparison to most SB gassers.
chopped&bobbed77burb
1/2 ton status
I have a 84 1 ton 2wh srw crewcab w/a mild built 454 and t400 w/ allision t.c. and 4:10 gears . with no load I get 11-12mpg if I keep my foot out of it . with my old 71 10ft cab over camper on it and pulling a trailer with the burb on it I got 7mpg . A duelly would have been nicer for the camper to help the side to side movement but as far as taking off and cruising on the freeway it did very well and I also had to pass some car's up the hill's on hwy84 going through the gourge and it easily did 85mph . stopping went well with the hydoboost brakes but you still have to leave your self some room . I have a buddie that tows with a 1 ton cc with a 350 and it's a freakin dog w/ no ball's . I hate the smell of desiel fumes and the cost of a newer rig just doesn't work for me since my truck is paid for and I can work on it and part's are fairly cheap for it compared to a oilburner . I do burn oil for heating my house so I'm not totally against oilburners
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A couple days ago, I towed 8K with a 351 efi...& possibly 3.55 gears for 100 miles...I was surprised that it pulled it as well as it did:
http://ohio4x4.fourwardmomentum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2200
http://ohio4x4.fourwardmomentum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2200
ivie29
1/2 ton status
I had a 99 dodge with a v10. It ran very well and pulled my 36 foot gooseneck pretty good. the trailer has a cabover camper on the front half and I load my fullsize crawler on the back. The camper says 3500 lbs dry weight on it and the truck has a big block and 1 ton running gear so this was a pretty good load. The dodge got 6 mpg with this load running 75 mph most the time. Hills slowed in down as to be expected but it did ok.
Now I have an 03 2500hd with the 6.0. I was worried that it wouldnt like this load, but to my suprise it does amazing. Towed everything to moab for ejs and averaged 9 mpg at 75 mph. I did do a chip, exhaust, and a cold air intake on this truck which also helped the unloaded gas mileage, I'm getting 17 mpg on 91 octane. the dodge also had these mods but the best mileage i got with unloaded was 11.
Now I have an 03 2500hd with the 6.0. I was worried that it wouldnt like this load, but to my suprise it does amazing. Towed everything to moab for ejs and averaged 9 mpg at 75 mph. I did do a chip, exhaust, and a cold air intake on this truck which also helped the unloaded gas mileage, I'm getting 17 mpg on 91 octane. the dodge also had these mods but the best mileage i got with unloaded was 11.
afroman006 said:
we had a 88 C&C chevy dually with a TBI 454& 4.10 gears. wasnt very impressive. gutless on the freeway. ok around town. about 5mpg towing.8 empty. i'd get a diesel and add a big inbed tank so you dont have to worry about finding diesel in the boonies.
i'd suggest a 90's dodge cummins. not impressed with the powerstrokes of the 90's, never driven a chevy diesel. the cummins pulls like a frieght train on the freeway tho.
