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Why dont we do cross over like this?

If you take this type of steering and apply a bit of normal wear to each of the ends then turn the tires you will begin to see why it isn't the greatest setup in the world. Yes it works there is no denying that.

What happens is that as you apply very minor amounts of turning force the slightly worn drag link and tie rod ends rotate a bit. What this results in is actually a little piece of a turn at the steering wheel won't equal any turn at the tires. All of the turning force is put into the minor rotation of the tie rod and drag link. After the ends have rotated to the end of their range only then does the steering effort make it to the tires.

It basically becomes vague in it's response. Then there are all of the other issues with actually being able to connect the points like has already been discussed.
 
shady said:
Whats the motor looking thing on the left side of the sway bar? Is that a factory disconnect? And the Guy with the MJ was NOT just casually driving down the dirt road. I've rolled enough old play vehicles beating them to know he was doing a good clip and any bent steering arms were probably due to the accident, not the cause. The big Z is a bad idea for sure though. Even if you were able to do it, as you've already figured out you cant, you still wouldnt be able to run the sway bar because the steering arm end would contact it. It was a good thought though. I'm still working on a way to do crossover with a sway bar. I know its possible but just not with the factory bar.
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Can't disagree that he was driving too damn fast, but Winemucca Ranch Road is a graded, maintained, dead straight, albeit dirt road. The speed limit is 35 or 45 I believe, and it doesn't concern me to drive 40-50 down it in the daylight in my stock pickup. The drag link folded and he lost steering control, it happens regularly to the guys around here that have that inverted y system, I've seen it happen with almost no force applied to them many times, which is why I have been telling that guy to make some better damn steering links ever since he got that truck. It absolutely was a folded draglink that caused him to flip, he said he went to turn passenger a little bit and the tires just hooked the other direction. Nothing else could have caused that when looking at the wreckage. But, like I said, I have seen half a dozen XJs, MJs, and TJs around here fold the drag link in the exact same spot with almost no force on them, many of them running less than a 33" tire. Those bends are just a huge magnet for fatigue and strain hardening and they give you no warning to when they're going to fail unless you've got a camera display in the cab or something. In fact, one of my regular wheeling buddies that drives an XJ was running 33" ATs last year and was folding a drag link every single time we went out. He ended up having to just carry a spare from picknpull until I finally talked him in to running something bigger in diameter (V8 ZJ) until he could work out a way to get around his passenger coil bucket and run one with no bends. He didn't understand that a solid bar is not really significantly stronger than the same diameter hollow bar lol.

That's the sway bar disconnect on the Dodge BTW.
 
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miniwally said:
If you take this type of steering and apply a bit of normal wear to each of the ends then turn the tires you will begin to see why it isn't the greatest setup in the world. Yes it works there is no denying that.

What happens is that as you apply very minor amounts of turning force the slightly worn drag link and tie rod ends rotate a bit. What this results in is actually a little piece of a turn at the steering wheel won't equal any turn at the tires. All of the turning force is put into the minor rotation of the tie rod and drag link. After the ends have rotated to the end of their range only then does the steering effort make it to the tires.

It basically becomes vague in it's response. Then there are all of the other issues with actually being able to connect the points like has already been discussed.
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I think thats why they have started doing it like this,

09DodgeSteeringUpgrade.jpg




Anyway, pretty well convinced myself that this is a stupid idea. So, in short, if i want cross over i will just do it the right way!
 
There was an article in 4wheeler magazine last year that I just read last night while on the throne that talked about the Zlink setup and said that it was weaker than the rest of the steering setups. Which I could see that for sure.
 
You guys would be surprised what you can do with a little ingenuity.
Here is mine.
4de57672.jpg

09683600.jpg

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It really isn't that complicated.
spend some time hunting for the correct parts and build it to be strong and straight as possible. My steering links are made from 1.5 inch cold rolled steel BAR with threaded inserts for the tie rod ends.
I even managed to get around those huge stacks of springs on both sides.
Any strength gain past what I have here would have to be hard earned using money and probably alot of it.
If, IF... this ever becomes an issue for me all I'll do solve it is rebuild them exactly like they are, and sleeve the solid links with 2.0 OD x .250 wall DOM tubing. But, I just don't see the need right now.:whistle:
 
Theres nothing wrong with doing steering like that when properly setup. The only reason it works spring over on a ford is because theyre spring width is very far. It wont work on our trucks because of how close the spring width is.

Theres no reason to not use that setup on a spring under or coil spring vehicle.
 
Boondock, damn them is some springs! Your setup is very much the most ideal.

Stomis, on the whole ford thing, i think that it also helps alot that their steering box is mounted both backwards of ours AND inside the frame rail. This means they can put the pitman arm as far down, close to the axle as they want.
 
DEMON44 said:
:eek1: HOLY FRONT SPRINGS BATMAN!!!!!!


will they flex at all? what the idea behind that there? :confused:
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I see very many thin springs. Bet it flexes like mad. Reminds me of National Spring's products back in the day.
 
Ya I don't know, thats why I'm asking. I just see a super fat stack. I haven't had leaf springs in a truck of mine in probably more than 8 years.
 
Most older prerunners and rock crawlers had packs like that. A quality Atlas, Deaver, etc pack will look like that as well. More, thinner leaves = soft and flexy.

I once rode in a Burb on 12" of lift with National Spring packs that rode better than my buddy's K5 on 4" Rough Country springs.
 
:sign2::sign28:

I thought I explained this, maybe I didn't?:dunno:

The spring you all see in the front there, are originally the after market (they had a tag on them that was from AAA spring here in SLC, Utah) 56 inchers from the rear of my Crewcab.
After riding with Keith Blazer (kgblazerfive) during BB10, he had a partial pack of 56's up front on his Burb, and they were super flexy, almost too much. Keith had 6 leaves, since mine is going to be a bit heavier...
So, after much discussion, we agreed that to get a heavy rig like mine to perform properly, I would need more springs. Hence, I used the whole 10 leaf pack with overload.
The packs you see in the pics have super thin leaves, and being full packs, will not bend a leaf very easily. Also, keeping axle wrap to bare minimum.
I'll probably have a mile of droop, and not much more uptravel than what I all ready have. The springs are sitting on the frame in the rear, acting as a giant bumpstop.
I have not driven on them yet, so we shall see.

Hijack Off------------------

I like my cross over design, super strong, good angles, good parts.
 
Amtek said:
yeah....no... Theres a reason why its not done that way.

That draglink looks like it came straight out of the ScarySteering website: http://128.83.80.200/taco/scarysteering8.html

Ford uses a a setup similar to this, but the draglink is straight, as it should be. Just think about the forces on those bends everytime you turn the wheel.
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Umm... my ORD Drag Link has bends in it... :whistle:
 
y5mgisi said:
So it seems some of you are arguing that it is unsafe because of the bend in the draglink? ORD sels then that way and no one seems to have a problem with those yet. Im talking about essentially taking a ORD bent draglink, shorting it, and attaching it to the tierod. Still unsafe or acceptable?
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I have a Jeep Wagoneer (full size jeep) that had this type steering, except straight drag link, and I lifted it 4" and got a 4" drop pitman arm, and the setup works fine.
I would never do a bent drag link, or any bent suspension part for that matter.
Otherwise there is no reason you couldn't do this setup with a 2.5" lift, just use a drop pitman arm.
 
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