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Why EFI owners don't Program their own PROM's?

Discussion in 'The Injection Section' started by dave w, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    I've wondered why EFI owners don't Program their own PROM's more often? I think I've got a list of some of the most common reasons. Please add a reason if I did not list a reason that should be included. I could use the information to write a "How To PROM Program" technical article.

    1. Don't know computers. Hmmmmmm what does that really mean?:dunno:
    a. Don't know how to download and install freeware software?
    b. Don't know how to manage file attachments?
    c. Don't know how to install a USB Driver?
    d. Don't know what a serial port is, or how to configure a serial port?

    2. Don't know what it all means in programs like TunerPro / TunerCats:dunno:
    a. What are Parameters?
    b. What are Constants?
    c. What are Tables?
    d. What is a .bin file (binary file)?
    e. What is a definition file?

    3. Don't know how to collect and/or what to do with a Data Log File?:dunno:
    a. What is an Excel Spread Sheet file?
    b. How to correct a lean / rich BLM?
    c. What the heck is a BLM anyway?
    d. What is the difference between a .csv and .xls file?

    4. What is a PROM?:dunno:
    a. What is the difference between an EPROM and EEPROM?
    b. How to modify an ECM to accept an EPROM or EEPROM.
    c. What is the difference between an EPROM programmer and a EEPROM Programmer?

    5. Have more money than time? (Someday I'll grow up to have that problem, or maybe I'll win the Lottery and buy a new Pickup)

    6. That's just to much work and/or information to figure out?

    dave w
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  2. Big Ray

    Big Ray 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Me, I just haven't the $$ or the time to research it the way I would like to.

    When I get a bug for something, I usually go all out to learn as much as I can. For example, GM TBI and TPI. I learned the overview of them, the differences in operation, sensors...

    I'm not a tech by any stretch, but I know when to say when and know where to look when I get stuck.

    I will get more in depth as I go along. $$ is just tight right now and it's not so high on my priority list.
     
  3. mrdrinksalil

    mrdrinksalil 1/2 ton status

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    I really had no idea on how to do anything other than #1 when I started a few months back. The info on Binder Planet is VERY helpfull but wouldn't hurt to have someone re-write that stuff in a slightly more organized format. Trying to find good info on the thirdgen.org forum is difficult. There's a lot of info there but most of the stickys are written at a very technical reading level.

    If we were talking about TBI I would cover:

    1) What components are in the system and why they are there and what they do. (IE MAP sensor, Knock Sensor)

    2) How to watch what the ECU is seeing and record data (Winaldl)

    3) How to use that data to make changes to your chip. (IE. aldltobin, tunercats, tunerpro)

    4) How to burn chips (IE modifying ECU's for EEPROMs, Burning Hardware and Software)

    There really is a LOT to talk about and Bill has done a good job with that over on binder planet but the layout of his information could be a little more fine tuned.
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    For myself...

    1) b., c., d.
    2) d., e.
    3) a. (know what it is, don't know how to use it other than to look at)
    b., c., d.
    4) a., b., c.
    5) lack of both really
    6) It can be overwhelming to me, I have no background in computers at all. A lot of it seems too 'imaginary' to me. I connect really well with things that are tangible, not so much with 1's and 0's.

    7) I foresee being out 20 miles past east bumblefukk and having an engine related issue. Carb, HEI and some duct tape and I'm reasonably comfortable I can make it run. That's not where I want to be when I'm having issues that can be computer related.

    8) maybe it's just a case of more 'doing' is more 'learning'?

    Rene
     
  5. brian wafer

    brian wafer 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    i was planning on buying cable and lap top ,for this winter.to try and learn more on my c2500. it feels gutless .
     
  6. eagle mark

    eagle mark 1/2 ton status

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  7. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    Absolutely the biggest reason?

    Along that train of though:

    Most early EFI vehicle owners, did not get / or know about, the many different factory Technical Bulletin PROM changes. For the most part, Technical Bulletins are to address service problems / drive-ability complaints. Technical Bulletin PROM changes addressed hard starting problems in hot and / or cold weather, torque converter lockup / transmission shift conditions and even some Emission Equipment was reprogrammed. In almost all cases, the PROM Service Bulletins did state what programming was changed. Most Service Bulletins only address, "Certain Customer Complaints" or "Certain Service Conditions" because the factory would want to side step a possible "Recall" with a Service Bulletin.:dunno: At any rate, even late model vehicles today have "Flash Updates" for Vehicle Control Modules (VCM's).

    Basically, I'm looking for information / feedback to help with a tech article on "How To Program" a PROM. It's been my experience, most EFI engine owners would modify their engine if they knew more about the PROM programming? It's been my personal experience, most all EFI engine owners understand that engine changes require PROM changes but don't know how or what to change in the PROM.

    The screen shot below is a preview of one of the screen shots I've done in the "How to Download TunerPro RT".

    dave w

    TunerPro_04.JPG
     
  8. eagle mark

    eagle mark 1/2 ton status

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    Yup, and cost of doing your own considering you only need one.

    I think what you are planning will be a huge help and get lots more people interested in doing their own. I know once I started I couldn't beleive I went all that time without! Then I would be making little changes here and there but the erasing the chip and burning one to have it not work because of the old chips was very frustrating. Then I upgraded to the new chip and never looked back. Soldering in a new recepticle for the new chip is intimadating but the best thing I have done since starting to burn my own!
     
  9. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    Here is a mouse click by mouse click tutorial, using Internet Explorer Screen Shots for downloading TunerPro. This tutorial only installs TunerPro software, nothing else. I will do tutorials for downloading a definition file and binary file later.

    Go to http://www.tunerpro.net/ and start clicking. Only 14 mouse clicks!:D

    dave w

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  10. eagle mark

    eagle mark 1/2 ton status

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    That will definatly get people on the fence to fall the way of burning their own chips.

    Wonder if you know the math required to determine correct fuel pressure for a built engine? I had read somewhere you need to know approx HP and the size of injectors then you can determine the presure needed so said injectors put out enough fuel for engine?
     
  11. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    I found this Excel spreadsheet on the "net" sometime in the past. It's mostly accurate, but not 100% accurate.

    dave w

    Injector - Horsepower.JPG
     
  12. eagle mark

    eagle mark 1/2 ton status

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    Nice! Now my wife can teach me Excel...
     
  13. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    The next step with the TunerPro installation is the Definition File. The Definition File in the tutorial is for 1227747 TBI ECM. The pictures below are a mouse click by mouse click tutorial using Internet Explorer. This tutorial requires using Double Mouse Clicks and One RIGHT Click.:eek1: This tutorial requires the TunerPro download to be done first!

    Go to TunerPro http://www.tunerpro.net/

    dave w

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  14. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    How to download a .bin file from TunerPro using Internet Explorer.

    dave w

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  15. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    Starting with TunerPro.

    dave w

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  16. eagle mark

    eagle mark 1/2 ton status

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    Even though I am up to speed on this part, you are doing a great job for the new guy. Thanks for all the help you offer.

    Maybe when your done we can clean up this thread or start a fresh one with info only and add it to the stickies?
     
  17. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    eagle mark

    My basic goal with the TunerPro download tutorials was for EFI owners to gain a better understanding of the information that is programmed into a PROM.

    For me, once I was able to "read" PROM information it truly opened a new chapter in my understanding of EFI. I think even the average EFI owner, who leaves their EFI engine stock (or nearly stock), can greatly benefit their own individual understanding of EFI by being able to "read" PROM information.

    dave w
     
  18. y5mgisi

    y5mgisi 1 ton status

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    Thanks Dave! Thats really helpful! Takes ALOT of intimidation out of it! One question i always have is, what if i have nothing but i want to burn my own chip, how much will it cost? From what i gather(and from what you have told me via e-mail, is that it will probably cost about $160 for, ALDL cable, new chip socket for the comp for EEPROM chips, and for the chip holder programmer. How accurate is that?
     
  19. dave w

    dave w 1/2 ton status

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    Cost is variable. I think going with products / services from Moates.net is an option with someone doing the professional soldering to the ECM. If you can do the soldering, then the cost is reduced.:D

    Moates.net can modify your '7747 for a EEPROM. The parts / services (G2 memory adapter $30, G2 installation service $25, 27SF512 EEPROM $5.00) for a total of $60, then add some shipping (about $30 / or about $15 each way). The Burn2 is $85. An ALDL cable is about $60. So the cost is $205 for parts and services. With shipping I'd estimate a total of $245 ~ $250.

    If you do the soldering to the ECM yourself, then the costs are less.:D A zif socket can be modified to work like the Moates.net G2 memory adapter. A zif socket is about $10. So if you modify your own ECM and modify the zif socket yourself, you can save on paying Moates.net for a G2 part, G2 Installation Service, and Shipping ($85). Doing the soldering yourself, you only pay for the zif socket ($10), Burn2 $(85), ALDL Cable ($60), and 27SF512 EEPROM $(5) = $160 along with some shipping costs.

    dave w
     
  20. y5mgisi

    y5mgisi 1 ton status

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    Great detailed answer! Thanks!
     

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