paulb001
Registered Member
uuummm....right
Yeah. All of that. My rig is AWESOME but I'm kind of hamstrung by carburation!
Yeah. All of that. My rig is AWESOME but I'm kind of hamstrung by carburation!CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Why EFI owners don't Program their own PROM's?
- Thread starter dave w
- Start date
Confedneck79K30
3/4 ton status
::shovel:: because at this point, one of y'all should've learned enough to be so upset you haven't tuned in the last 6.5 years and want to do it for practice....for free....for me..... 
Well, we lost @eagle mark::shovel:: because at this point, one of y'all should've learned enough to be so upset you haven't tuned in the last 6.5 years and want to do it for practice....for free....for me.....
There are some guys that know the HPtuners platform well enough to be of some use. Probably depends on what you want it to do
Tuning the MAF and tuning for fuel delivery is fairly straight forward. My hang-up has always been on setting the timing. I like to measure things and act on those measurements, not just fiddle around and see what sounds / feels best. Ideally a super high speed pressure sensor / spark plug combo to measure the pressure wave in the cylinder as the combustion takes so you can set your timing right at the peak would be my preference. Them things ain't cheap though!
An engine dyno with a load cell would be ideal as well, so you can hit all the fuel cells for real world data.
Then there are the other 10,000 variables in a common LS PCM all of which are super complicated and difficult to wrap your mind around.
An engine dyno with a load cell would be ideal as well, so you can hit all the fuel cells for real world data.
Then there are the other 10,000 variables in a common LS PCM all of which are super complicated and difficult to wrap your mind around.
When there are too many variables to understand, that's when you apply modern machine learning. I don't have time or motivation, but it would be cool to build a neural network to run an engine. You just need to come up with a way to score its performance so it can be trained... smoothness, fuel efficiency, acceleration?
It looks like Dynamic EFI is a good solution for thning a TBI, but is it worth it? Not just money wise but is the gained efficiency and performance worth the time and effort. If I had an LS I would because the knowledge base is huge and the effort gets results.
It seems like trying to tune a pre-LS engine is a black art, and still doesn’t get you into big gains. Like trying to hop up a flathead 4 cylinder. It can be done but you need deep pockets.
It seems like trying to tune a pre-LS engine is a black art, and still doesn’t get you into big gains. Like trying to hop up a flathead 4 cylinder. It can be done but you need deep pockets.
I just don't think there are huge gains to be made with say, TBI. Not in the tuning realm anyway. GM did leave some performance on the table with timing as I recall, but that's to make sure you don't run into detonation based on fuel. Those heads (particularly combustion chambers) aren't that great, so the tune is fairly good as is. This is why Vortec engines were such a step up. Better heads all around, roller cam, higher compression. The injection itself really didn't add much, it was almost all the technology invested into the engine design itself, not fuel delivery. You saw the same when GM went from TPI batch fire to sequential port...it was like 5HP. You gain far more from a compression boost, cam change, exhaust improvements, etc.
I know Eaglemark (RIP) mentioned getting lean cruise implemented in his TBI Suburban but I can't recall what his gains were. I want to say pretty significant, so that would be a potential benefit to DIY tune.
I think EBL is about as "modern" as you are going to get with GM OBD1 tuning. It's been out forever, so it's not like it's unproven, I just can't remember what exactly it gets you over the Tunerpro/Chip burning method. Chip burning really needs to go by the wayside anyway lol.
I know Eaglemark (RIP) mentioned getting lean cruise implemented in his TBI Suburban but I can't recall what his gains were. I want to say pretty significant, so that would be a potential benefit to DIY tune.
I think EBL is about as "modern" as you are going to get with GM OBD1 tuning. It's been out forever, so it's not like it's unproven, I just can't remember what exactly it gets you over the Tunerpro/Chip burning method. Chip burning really needs to go by the wayside anyway lol.
It looks like the Dynamic Efi is the hardware mod to use TunerPro for live tuning on the TBI/Tuned port. I’d like to find someone that has done it to see what the results were. Dropping the TBI system on a vortec longblock would be easy if the tuning gives you all the potential of the engine.
I wouldn't personally bother tuning if I had factory TBI, but then I never enjoyed it anyway I just wanted to get away from the carb. EBL is a great option for a carb swap though. There's no chip burning and it has a semi-auto tune thing. It's been many years since I did it, but you drive around and it makes it obvious how to reprogram. It doesn't directly do it, but it's the next best thing. At this point if I had it to do over, I'd seriously look at the TPI options where you swap in a new intake though. That or a NA diesel swap to make the whole thing dead simple and low tech, but that's just me.
I'm disappointed the EBL guy (RBob on Thirdgen) never made new TBI computer hardware. Modern tech could make that so small and robust. An underhood weather/temp resistant package would be cool. I'm a little nervous with my 30+ year old computer.
I'm disappointed the EBL guy (RBob on Thirdgen) never made new TBI computer hardware. Modern tech could make that so small and robust. An underhood weather/temp resistant package would be cool. I'm a little nervous with my 30+ year old computer.
gearhead-efi.com might be the place to ask.
Thirdgen.orgs DIY-EFI forum used to be the go-to, but it's probably pretty sparse on info anymore. But EBL has been around a long time, I remember it being announced over there, so there are probably some threads on it. I do recall it being appealing because it at least somewhat simplifies the process. If sticking with TBI, your tuning options are extremely limited, and not getting better.
The one difficulty I've worked through on the programming front is that there aren't (or weren't) any automated tools that you could use with Tunerpro to essentially build your tune for you as you drive. EBL might have that functionality, which would make it more appealing I think. Eliminating chip burning is huge, but if you are driven, and get your tune done quickly, it's kind of a hard cost to swallow IMO. Once you get the tune dialed in, unless you make hardware or drivetrain changes, you'll never touch it again. That's great, but as I recall EBL wasn't necessarily cheap, and for essentially one time use, it's a bit much. But I do see the value in it.
Edit: I do think the L31 with TPI was the engine that should have been put in trucks. Even the L98 would have been an improvement over the TBI setup, but I'm sure that was just GM trying to be cheap. I did find a number on the TPI/L31 combo which I was interested in: "SDPC made 367 hp/406 lb/ft on their SDPC TPI.L31 crate engines."
Thirdgen.orgs DIY-EFI forum used to be the go-to, but it's probably pretty sparse on info anymore. But EBL has been around a long time, I remember it being announced over there, so there are probably some threads on it. I do recall it being appealing because it at least somewhat simplifies the process. If sticking with TBI, your tuning options are extremely limited, and not getting better.
The one difficulty I've worked through on the programming front is that there aren't (or weren't) any automated tools that you could use with Tunerpro to essentially build your tune for you as you drive. EBL might have that functionality, which would make it more appealing I think. Eliminating chip burning is huge, but if you are driven, and get your tune done quickly, it's kind of a hard cost to swallow IMO. Once you get the tune dialed in, unless you make hardware or drivetrain changes, you'll never touch it again. That's great, but as I recall EBL wasn't necessarily cheap, and for essentially one time use, it's a bit much. But I do see the value in it.
Edit: I do think the L31 with TPI was the engine that should have been put in trucks. Even the L98 would have been an improvement over the TBI setup, but I'm sure that was just GM trying to be cheap. I did find a number on the TPI/L31 combo which I was interested in: "SDPC made 367 hp/406 lb/ft on their SDPC TPI.L31 crate engines."
Last edited:
I forgot that EBL has a pretty nice real time display with custom software. I thought about getting a Windows capable tablet to show it all the time, but kind of gave up on it.
Yeah, EBL is not super cheap. Everyone is on their own cost/convenience curve. For me it was worth it to get a known good computer ready to go with a close program and relatively painless tuning process.
Another feature EBL has is the ability to use pins for control. It's been a decade since I did this... I have a switch to up the idle when using the winch. Can't remember if I'm running my electric fans that way, or just block switch...
The current EBL looks similar to hp tuners and you can program on the fly. But for $400 and downtime to have the ecm modded I don’t know if the value is there. If I did my math right going from 12.8mpg to 15mpg being able to tune, it would take about 11,000 miles for ROI.
Best ROI is to buy a Civic for daily driving and keep the K5 for fun.
I'd only recommend the EBL to people doing a carb swap out if you want the initial setup to be less painful.
Can you put a price on losing your soul?
Yes. It's somewhere around $2.50 a gallon. lol
Down to $2.95 here.
The problem burning chips with OBDI is that it could cost you a several of hundred dollars to gain 20 or 30 HP...maybe even less HP. EBL only works with OBDI/TBI combonatio0ns that do not have a PCM computer controlled transmission. I would not want to burn a chip for my 1991 V3500, unless I had an extra 7060 ECM because those OBDI/ECM's are getting hard to find, and the one I had got damaged I could be f#cked.
Thats good to know, my 1991 V2500 Suburban has a 4l80e.
