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Why NOT tow with a shackle flip?

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84_Chevy_K10 said:
Read the sentence again. Not every trailer in Illinois is required to have brakes. I think it's a 2,000 lb limit. But if it's required to have brakes, it has to have brakes on every axle.

Some 7,000 lb car trailers I've seen have brakes on only one axle. They cannot be sold in Illinois as they're illegal.
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No, its not. Brakes are not required on all wheels, only one axle. And thats only if the trailer exceeds 3K pounds. It must have one independent braking axle and if the trailer exceeds 5K pounds it must have a breakaway setup.

Every trailer of a *GW of over 3,000lbs. must be equipped with brakes when operated upon a highway. Such brakes must be so designed and connected that in case of an accidental breakaway of a towed vehicle over 5,000lbs., the brakes are automatically applied. Drawbar or other connection shall be of sufficient strength to pull all the weight towed and shall not exceed 15’ in length. Outside a business, residential or suburban district, or highway, no vehicle shall be towed on a roadway except by a drawbar and each such vehicle so towed shall, in addition, be coupled with 2 safety chains or cables to the towing vehicle. Chains or cables shall be of sufficient size and strength to prevent towed vehicle parting from towing vehicle in case drawbar should break or become disengaged. Special permit required if combination exceed size limits. Brake hookup required if vehicle towed is over 3,000lbs.
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Nowhere is it specified that its required on all wheels. HERE is another listing, and the states that require it on all wheels are specified. Illinois is not, nor has ever been one.
 
Paul, your on thin ice here. I've already had to get involved with personal attacks on this thread once, and it's getting old. Let it go. You may not agree, but state your point and move on. I'm in a generous mood, so I'm editing the personal crap out of your posts. This is going to stop voluntarily, or with a short vacation. And that's not just to Paul, but everyone involved. The Mods and Admin are getting really tired of it. Lets try to be civil, even if we don't agree...

Tyler, not sure what you're referring too.
 
If you go to the link in my sig, you will see my black crew cab, it has a shackle flip to attain the 4" of lift in the rear. I just wanted to hear your opinion, good or bad, about towing with it. Thanks.
 
This is taken from 625 ILCS, directly from the state website:

5. Every motor vehicle, trailer, pole trailer or
semitrailer, sold in this State or operated upon the highways shall be equipped with service brakes upon all wheels of every such vehicle, except any motor‑driven cycle, and except that any trailer, pole trailer or semitrailer 3,000 pounds gross weight or less need not be equipped with brakes, and except that any trailer or semitrailer with gross weight over 3,000 pounds but under 5,001 pounds need be equipped with brakes on only one wheel on each side of the vehicle.

I had thought that anything over 3,000 lbs must have brakes on every wheel. I was wrong. It's 5,001 lbs. Either way the point I was making is that a 7k GVWR trailer with brakes on only one axle is not legal in Illinois.
 
Oh, I see. Honestly, I would be hesitant to load cargo to full capacity with a flip and no other mods. But that's shooting from the hip here with no personal experience and no way to calculate the actual effect (all that complexity we talked about). Basically, once the truck starts to squat significantly, and the shackle starts to kick back past vertical, I would start to be pretty concerned. Now with air bags, or secondary overloads modified to work with the lift, I would be much less concerned. In fact, airbags could certainly be used (wisely) to completely negate the effects and carry cargo beyond factory ratings with (relative) safety within reasonable chassis limits.

I would probably try it with increasing loads (probably starting at the point where you first notice significant squat) and carefully see how it responds (as in drive slow, see how it feels in turns, then try faster and such). But you've made major changes to rear suspension geometry, so there is no way I would be comfortable relying on factory ratings as a guide line without testing the effects. In reality, I don't see any other way to figure out exactly how it's going to act. And honestly, most people who have never towed/hauled heavy in a given chassis should probably do something similar anyway since there is quite a bit of difference with they way different vehicles respond to loads, even with similar ratings.

And as already stated, it could probably tow at or beyond rated capacity with a good LD (and maybe SC) hitch.
 
Thanks for the reply, it will have a gooseneck setup on it for hauling my trail rig. Best guesstimate would put both truck and trailer and other junk around 9-10k lbs., so with the gooseneck it should work pretty well. Also, I decided a while back to get rid of the overloads since I would have to modify the brackets to make them work and instead use some airbags.
 
Airbags pretty much change everything. Some of the guys with 2500HDs like mine wanted a better ride (eh, ok, whatever) so they took out leafs and installed airbags to keep it level for better unloaded ride. Then when they load up the 36' 5ers or whatever, they just air up to level again, some with remote control and on-board air. Other than axle wrap, you could pretty much take out everything but the main leaf if you use bags. Well, not really, since axle wrap and bent main leafs would be a problem, but the cargo load would be fine...

It's amazing that basic Firestone aux bag kits start at around $300 or so, but are so rarely used. I see guys hauling big RVs all the time with the back squashed, and assuming it's not just stupid loading issues, airbags would make it SO much better...
 
Tyler I can't say exactly what you can load your truck down to and still feel safe. But I can give you my experiance since of all the people on this site I probably have towed with a shackle flip as much if not more.
I have never repeat never felt like I had to much weight on the truck from loading and towing a trailer. I have put 1,000# plus in the bed and hooked up to a trailer with a skidsteer on it with fork attachment, and bucket and towed at 65 mph.
I have done this with stock truck, Lifted using blocks, lifted using add a leaf and blocks, and finally and shackle flip.
The flip did not feel any different than any other method of lift.
This was with my 95 F250 extended cab long bed on 35" bfgs, Doubler, and 460. Using 4.10 gears.
I doubt you will ever notice that your truck is different. I doo like the idea of using air bags though. I have thought about putting 1500 springs under my 2500HD and using an airbag setup to help with the weight when towing the buggy.
 
BadDog said:
Paul, your on thin ice here. I've already had to get involved with personal attacks on this thread once, and it's getting old. Let it go. You may not agree, but state your point and move on. I'm in a generous mood, so I'm editing the personal crap out of your posts. This is going to stop voluntarily, or with a short vacation. And that's not just to Paul, but everyone involved. The Mods and Admin are getting really tired of it. Lets try to be civil, even if we don't agree...

Tyler, not sure what you're referring too.
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No problem, I'll just make this my last post in this thread. Sorry, didn't intend too attach anyone, but I see it could have been taken as so.
 
Yea, especially since the Ride-Rites by Firestone are model specific, there are literally hundreds of applications for them so they fit just like they were a factory item. I plan on getting a Ride-Rite system, I will just have to modify the upper bracket to account for the lift.
 
Thanks Brandon, sharing your real world experience is appreciated. Not that I had much doubt before, but I feel even more at ease now.
 
Ive been using the Ride rite sytem for a few months now and if your going ahead with it can give you some good tips on installation and modifying for lifted systems.

Jason

Airbags 1.jpg
 
To follow up on a point brought up earlier in the thread, I tokk a couple of pictures today of a brand new Dodge DRW 4WD Cummins on a lot today. Here is the suspension:

39HPIM0831_Large_.JPG


39HPIM0830_Large_.JPG

Sorry for the poor angles. I felt like an idiot climbing under a brand new truck on a dealer lot to take pictures.

Russ, I think you are correct. It is dependent on the overload springs seen in the 1st picture for extra capacity. I can only guess that Dodge switched to this design to allow for a better unloaded ride.
 
Yep, looking at those pics, that is my guess exactly. Actually, probably a smart move since ride quality is one place they've needed some improvement (based on current market demands). And it still fits with my current "understanding" (or at least what I think I understand). Thanks for the follow up.
 
I pull my 6000 lbs gooseneck trailer with my trail rig (that has an ORD 2.5" shackle flip) all the time, the only effect it has is it squats alot more than it did. I have never pulled it at highway speeds but I dont think it would effect it that much.
 
BlueBlazer62,

Some observations regarding the installation and use of the ride rites on a 79 K5. Kit part number DPU92A with the double convoluted 2175kg bag set (AB6957).

* There is some difficulty maintaining airbag alignment with this kit on a K5. The chassis is to far inboard for the adjustment available in the kit, either a spacer needs to be sandwiched between the upper bracket and the chassis (1/2 inch +) or the lower plate reversed and heavily notched to clear the shock tube. I think the best solution is the fabrication of a combined U bolt plate and airbag mount. I will be doing this after I install a 14FF. The present misalignment in my system 3/8-1/2 inch causes no problems in operation but is undesirable in the long term.

* This kit limits downward travel somewhat so its probably not an ideal solution for a dedicated trail type rig. The supplied material states the bags are capable of supporting any diff weight but they are just rubber and really designed for compression loads.

* For lifted trucks the most sensible location for the bags is right up near the chassis rail utilising the supplied upper bracket. They are better protected from mechanical damage up high. The bags fit quite well up there and have adequate operating clearance. Any spacer solution would be best placed under the bag against the diff shackle. When I lift I plan to use a multi holed steel assembly initially to experiment with desired travel heights then switch to a one piece alloy spacer on a combined upper shackle plate to keep down un-sprung mass and increase bling.

* The daily leakage rate is pretty close to the figure given in the data.

* After using them for the past few months including a trip of 6 weeks up and down the east of oz I highly recommend them for any rig that has to take a bit of weight (trailer or touring load) and doesn't need to twist its axles up to often.

I'm taking the truck south for 4 days but will be happy to answer any questions or supply detailed pics when I get back

cheers

Jason
 
FWIW, I looked at a 3/4 ton extended cab yesterday with a Hemi and auto, so the GVWR may not have been as high, but anyway, it had no overloads at all, just 4 thick leaves with what amount to be two zero-rates underneath the springs. Obviously it had the compression shackle too.:dunno:
 
Thanks for the tips, this will be for my tow rig, so no worries about loss of articulation and such.
 
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